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Home » Verbatim » 2020 » Verbatim Tuesday 31st March, 2020

Verbatim Tuesday 31st March, 2020

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF SEYCHELLES

 Tuesday 31st March, 2020

The Assembly met at 9am

National Anthem

Moment of Reflection

Mr Speaker in the Chair

 

MR SPEAKER

Bonzour tou Manm Onorab e, bonzour tou dimoun ki a lekout e pe swiv travay Lasanble Nasyonal.  Parey mon ti kominik avek zot Vandredi pase, ozordi nou pe rankontre pou nou pran en size lo nou Order Paper. Sa se prezantasyon Revised Budget pou lannen 2020.

Nou pe osi rankontre parey nou’n fer sorti dan sa bann moman ki pei pe pas ladan pou Lasanble Nasyonal osi tou kapab desarz son responsabilite e pou kapab debat bann size ki enportan.  E parey nou dir bann size ki itil. Kot nou bezwen vwar nou pou nou rankontre, pou nou fer sa travay. E bomaten nou pou pran prezantasyon The Amended Appropriation Bill.  E Lasanble Nasyonal an vi ki nou’n resevwar bann dokiman e Official Gazette yer lo tar, nou pou ankor servi nou pouvwar anba Standing Orders pou nou sispann serten Standing Orders pou permet Lasanble National pou fer First and Second Reading ozordi menm. Zis pou nou kapab tir sa lespas 7 zour parey Standing Orders i demande.

E toudswit mon ava demann Madanm Deputy Clerk pou fer First Reading.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Speaker. Bonzour Mr Speaker.  Bonzour tou bann manm e tou dimoun ki a lekout. The Appropriation (Amendment) Bill, 2020 – First Reading.

This Act may be cited as the Appropriation (Amendment) Act 2020.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR SPEAKER

Mersi Madanm Deputy Clerk. Avek sa mon ava demann parliamentary reporter fer antre Minis avek son bann teknisyen.

Mon dir bonzour e welcome Minis ki responsab pou Finans, Komers, Envestisman e Planning Ekonomik, Anbasader Maurice Loustau-Lalanne. Ki ganny akonpannyen lo front table par son Sekreter D’Eta pou Finans, Mr Patrick Payet. E lo side table nou annan PS pou Finans Mr Damien Thesee. Deputy Comptroller General, Ms Astride Tamatave. E dan Galeri nou annan Ms Nellie Coopoosamy, Director Public Budget Management, Mr Yannick Vel, Director General Macroeconomic Forecasting & Analysis and Mr Dick Labonte, Principal Economist.

Minister bonzour e welcome dan Lasanble Nasyonal.  E osi ou lekip, bonzour e welcome. Yes, Onorab Ramkalawan?

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Speaker bonzour. Bonzour tou bann koleg Onorab. Bonzour Minis avek ou delegasyon e tou dimoun ki pe ekoute. Mr Speaker mon bezwen dir avek ou ki nou annan problenm avek prosedir ki la devan nou. Alors mon anvi raise en matter of privilege avan menm ki nou al lo sa eleman Second Reading.

Nou problenm i vin avek prosedir ki pe ganny fer pou amann Appropriation Act. E letan nou les nou ganny dirize par konstitisyon spesifikman lartik 154. Lartik 154 i koz spesifikman lo finance. E sa Bidze nou pei ki son lesans e i donn nou 2 posibilite. Si larzan i manke, ki mannyer Gouvernman i vini pou li anmenn en supplementary, e si in depanse ki i vini ankor enn fwa through a supplementary pou li rod larzan.

Me lannen pase nou’n fer en keksoz spesyal. Lannen pase letan Gouvernman ti trouv li dan en pozisyon kot i pa ti pou kapab tenir son balans 2.5 poursan sirplis, i ti vin avek en supplementary appropriation. Kestyon se, eski sa prosedir ki nou ti fer koman en supplementary was the right one?  Parski sa ki nou ti pe fer e la mon bezwen osi dir ki virements i en keksoz ki Minister Finans i kapab fer.  Me virement i prensipalman within en Minister Finans. I kapab dir be mon pa pou depans larzan dan mon travelling alors mon ava pran ma fer en virement ma pran larzan dan travelling mon ava met li dan, pou boost up en lot Departman ki nou bezwen dan ‘’goods and services’’ par egzanp.

Me selman virement from Minister Finans pou Minister Ledikasyon pa anliny avek bann regilasyon finansyel. E alor se pou sa rezon ki mon pe demann kestyon as to sa ki nou ti fer lannen pase.  Wi nou ti fer li me selman whether i ti vreman the right way pou nou fer sa prosedir.

Ozordi nou anvi ganny li byen.  E lefe ki Appropriation Act li i ganny trete dan en fason spesyal dan nou Konstitisyon anba lartik 154. E i menm dir avek ou ki ‘’by the 30th or the 31st of January ok the Minister shall not 154 (1) the Minister shall not later than the 30th day after the beginning of each financial, year lay before the National Assembly the estimates of revenue and expenditure of the Government for the financial year. Ki ankor enn fwa i vin en lobligasyon.

Alor dan milye sa, eski sa ki nou pe fer e parey ki Gouvernman in met li devan nou koman en lamannman to the Appropriation Act, eski this is the way to do it?  Nou koz ek plizyer dimoun e well the answer is napa provizyon pou fer sa.  Parski the Appropriation Act is not treated like any other Acts ki nou pase.  Dog Control Act ou kapab, i parey bann lezot Lalwa ki ou kapab pase fer lamannman. Me Appropriation? Vi ki i spesifik.

Prezan prosedir ki nou pe fer, nou dan en sityasyon kot vre Gouvernman pe rod extra larzan, e sa extra larzan i sipoze spesifikman an relasyon avek COVID-19. I anvi raise larzan ki i napa ki pa’n ganny bidzete. Eski dan sa ka son prosedir se pa pou en Supplementary Appropriation kot pe rod raise from the Consolidated Fund sa sonm spesifik ki zot pe rode an plis?  E la letan nou regard bann landrwa kot par egzanp Welfare ensidswit, nou war spesifikman kot zot pe rod plis larzan, 1.2bilyon ki pa pou sifizan. Eski dan sa ka Gouvernman pa devret vin devan Lasanble senpleman avek en Supplementary Appropriation pou demande, pou demann Lasanble spesifikman bann sonm ki zot santi zot manke?  San tous bann lezot.

Gouvernman i kapab reponn e dir, ‘’be pou nou kapab ganny sa sonm nou pou bezwen koup dan Lasante, koup dan lot, koup isi, koup laba. ‘’Me selman Gouvernman i annan sa Lotorite pou li dir parey ki la pou lemoman in fer sorti en regilasyon ki pou dir, tou bann diferan Departman ki resevwar larzan from the Consolidated Fund Bidze lo travelling pa pou ganny released.

Menm parey, tou sa bann koupe ki zot pe koupe zot kapab fer li atraver bann regilasyon, bann direktiv direk pou dir ek Lasante. Well Lasante li nou pou donn li plis napa problem. Me pou dir avek Ledikasyon la nou pou koup, nou pe don en lord ki poudir, bann landrwa ki zot menm zot in fini fer sa travay. Parski zot deza annan atraver zot bann expert ki’n fer en travay fantastik, zot fini konnen kote zot pou koupe. Kote zot pou tenir.

Alor donn en direktiv poudir sa bann landrwa la pa pou ganny dwa depanse.  E letan zot pa depanse larzan i reste dan Consolidated Fund. At the end of the year tou sa larzan i pa pou’n ganny depanse li. E antretan letan ou’n raise sa ekstra, parske sa bann ekstra letan nou pe regard li, Bidze, Bidze aktyel i tonm 9. ekek bilyon me, e sa i enkli tou sa bann ki ti’n fini vote.  Me Bidze sa ki zot pe prezante i donn 10.4bilyon mon krwar. Savedir ant sa ki nou pe deza annan la an 2020 ki’n fini pase avek sa ki zot anvi mete i deza annan en appropriation plis ki 1bilyon dan 1.4bilyon anviron, ki zot pe vin rode ek Lasanble.

Alor eski prosedir pli senp ki ava osi anliny avek lartik 154 se pa pou senpleman vin devan Lasanble e demann en supplementary, ki pou le moman i pa’n ganny demande pou ganny appropriated. E sa i ava fer Mr Speaker ki nou ava kapab pe tous spesifikman lo bann landrwa an relasyon avek nou lobzektif ki nou anvi attend.  E an plis ki sa dan mon lopinyon, e dan lopinyon mon bann koleg ki nou’n diskite i ava fer nou tonm dan legalite nou bann prosedir. Ki nou pa ava ganny akize konmkwa nou pe fer en keksoz ki Konstitisyon pa donnen.

ki nou Standing Orders, e la mon anvi osi Mr speaker spesifikman dir ki nou Standing Orders tou i en Standing Orders ki prevwar ki son pli gran sapit ofet, son pli gran sapit i annan pou fer avek finans;-   ki mannyer tel keksoz pou pase, ki mannyer lot keksoz pou pase. E nou Standing Orders pou repran ok seksyon 10, seksyon part 16 of nou Standing Orders i financial procedure.  E sa ankor enn fwa i repran avek Konstitisyon kot i dir ki financial procedures in the house i pran en lenportans ekstraordiner.

Alor mwan dan en serten sans Mr Speaker mon pe senpleman dir, nou tou nou pe swiv tousala e parey Minis i konnen depi bann deba in konmanse napa problenm nou … Pou nou ganny li byen. Pou nou fer li byen Supplementary Appropriation lo sa ki zot pou manke e apre sa met en, Gouvernman li menm li donn en direktiv lo bann Heads. Parski zot pa kapab fer virement from one Ministry to another dan nou bann financial procedures but within.

Alor Mr speaker baze lo sa ki mon pe dir mon, mon pe propoze, mon pe propoze ki, parske mon ti bezwen fer li la on the floor of the House. Mon pe propoze ki pou nou pa gat plis letan, ki Minister Finans avek Leader of Government Business dan sa prosen, dan 1erdtan zis prezant en Mosyon ki nou, nou pou pare pou relax tou nou bann Standing Orders, relax tou bann Standing Orders. Vin avek en Mosyon appropriation en Supplementary Appropriation pou ki nou ava kapab al spesifikman lo sa bann pwen.

E sa i ava fer Mr Speaker ki sa bann zour ki nou’n mete pou sa deba nou ava still kapab fer li e nou ava attend sa menm lobzektif. Me avek en sel diferans ki nou’n ganny li byen e ki nou pe swiv bann prosedir. Se sa Mr Speaker ki mon ti ava kontan met devan ou, met devan Lasanble Nasyonal pou nou kapab fer nou travay dan en fason annord, byen, drwat e ase vit pou kapab bouze. Mersi bokou Mr Speaker.

 

MR SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ramkalawan. Bon ou largiman i reflekte menm largiman ki ou ti pe fer semenn pase. E apre sa semen pase mon’n osi seek legal advice. Mon’n osi koz avek Minister Finans e the end product ki’n sorti kot Attorney Zeneral in montre poudir nou pa pe al kont Lalwa kont Konstitisyon. E devan mwan, mon annan en mail ki Onorab Bernard George ti partaz avek mwan e mon ava zis enterpret enn de pti bout ladan.

Wi parey ou’n dir Appropriation Bill i spesifikman anba lartik Konstitisyon 154. Me i annan moman kot lartik 154 i osi tou reste silans. Par egzanp nou konnen poudir lo kote en Revised Budget Konstitisyon i reste silans. Konstitisyon i fer provizyon zis pou siplemanter.  Si Gouvernman i bezwen plis larzan pou depanse an mezir ki i pe ale dan son budget year, lo financial year. I vin devan Lasanble avek en Mosyon pou demande pou allow Gouvernman pou depans plis larzan.

Dan sa ka ki nou ladan, i pa en ka normal.  I en ka abnormal o komansman financial year, kot Gouvernman pe vwar li pou increase expenditure ki pa’n ganny foreseen, me an menm tan pou redwir bann sums ki’n fini appropriate pou bann diferan Minister, bann diferan heads,  pou kapab fer fas avek sityasyon ki devan nou.

E anliny avek nou Standing Orders, nou Standing Orders osi tou i reste silans lo whether nou kapab pran en Revised Budget. Me selman i pa pe osi dir ki nou pa kapab amend The Appropriation Act. The Appropriation Act once ki in pase i vin en Act parey nenport lezot Act.  E se sa lenpresyon ki mon’n gannyen ler mon pe lir sa advise ki mon’n gannyen from Onorab George e diskisyon ki nou ti’n gannyen avek Minister Finans.

An Act is an Act and can be amended along the way. So lafason ki nou’n vwar e lafason ki AG osi tou in met sa, se ki The Appropriation Act can be revised, can be amended e se sa ki nou annan devan nou bomaten.

Parey mon pou dir from the chair mon pa pe ouver deba lo la. Onorab Leader Lopozisyon in lev en pwen e mon pa pe ouver deba lo la.  Nou annan en serten irzans. Pei i bezwen bouze dan sa irzans. Mon pa pe ouver deba lo la. Si i annan problenm konstitisyonalite then mon ava fer fas avek sa pli lwen. Ok?  AG in komet son lekor lo la. AG osi tou i en advisor, not only to the Executive but also to the Legislative.  Se sa rezon ki nou’n ariv sa desizyon bomaten – ok?

Avek sa mon ava demann Onorab De Commarmond pou li move en Mosyon pou nou sispann Standing Orders. Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Speaker. Bonzour Mr Speaker, bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon. Bonzour tou bann manm Onorab e tou dimoun ki a lekout. Mr Speaker anba order 91 (1) lo Standing Orders, mon le move pou ou sispann lartik 64 (1) nou Standing Orders, pou nou sot sa 7 zour requirements ki i bezwen pou permet Second Reading of The Appropriation (Amendment) Bill 2020.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab De Commarmond. Okenn Manm ki segonde? Yes, Onorab Sebastien Pillay?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker, bonzour.  Bonzour tou koleg Onorab.  Bonzour Minis e bonzour tou dimoun ki a lekout.  Mon segonn sa Mosyon. Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Pillay. Nou ava pran en vot pou sispann Standing Orders pou nou kapab go ahead avek Second Reading. Tou Manm ki an faver?  Okenn Manm ki kont? Madanm Deputy Clerk?

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Speaker. Mon’n rikord 13 manm ki’n vot an faver e 15 Manm ki’n vot kont. Mersi.

 

MR SPEAKER

Mersi. Savedir Mosyon pou sispann Standing Orders pa’n aprouve par Lasanble Nasyonal. Nou pa pou kapab bouz devan  de la, e alor Lasanble i adjourn until further announcement.

 

(ADJOURNMENT)