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Home » Verbatim » 2019 » Verbatim Wednesday 7th August, 2019

Verbatim Wednesday 7th August, 2019

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF SEYCHELLES

Wednesday 7th August, 2019

The Assembly met at 9am

National Anthem

Moment of Reflection

Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon mon ti a kontan dir en bonzour tou Manm Onorab.  Tou dimoun ki pe swiv Lasanble Nasyonal pou ozordi Merkredi le 7 Out 2019.  Ozordi lo nou Order Paper ki nou’n pran depi yer, parey zot konnen nou ti’n ariv lo item limero 6 lo Order Paper ki Second Reading e nou ti dan Staz Komite Physical Planning Bill. E nou ti’n ariv lo Seksyon 12.  E ozordi bomaten nou ti pou al lo Seksyon 13 pou nou kontinyen.  Me avan nou kontinyen Onorab Ferrari.  Ou ti’n lev ou lanmen.

 

HON JEAN-FRANOCIS FERRARI

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan en pe gidans Lasanble lo sa pwen ki mon ti leve yer a lafen nou sesyon, konmkwa mon ti annan en query ki mon ti’n fer lo S.I 45 e mon’n ganny en larepons sorti kot Cabinet Office State House ki en leklersisman.  Mon pa konnen ki mannyer ou  ti a kontan mon deal avek sa.  Me selman mon krwar ti ava enportan ki Lasanble i okouran sa leksplikasyon ki Cabinet Office in fer.  So se avek ou permisyon si ou permet mwan mon ava deal avek sa en pti kou, i pa pou pran bokou letan.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok ou ti’n deza koz ek mwan lo la.  Mon okouran.  Mon permet ou zis briyevman zis eksplik kote problenm apre nou a trouv en solisyon ki mannyer nou pou deal avek.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Ok Mr Speaker, i annan de problenm.  Enn se ki klerman i annan en fot dan S.I.  En fot mon mazinen tipografi akoz dan bann landrwa kot i sipoze fer referans a 25hours per week.  ‘That the Commission will normally work 25hours per in any given months’’ e apre sa zot rezim saler i sanze. Cabinet Office in enform mwan ki an realite i ti devret lir, ‘‘because the Commission will normally work 25 hours per week’’.  And in excess of that son rezim saler pou sanze.  So sa i klerman en lerer dan drafting ki fer ki per week kot ti devret ‘’per week’’ dan S.I i ‘’per month.’’

Mon 2enm pwen briyevman se ki mon ti dir ki lo nou kote nou pa vreman vwar akoz nou bezwen annan en peyman siplemanter, pou bann travay ki ganny fer an ekse a 25erdtan par mwan.  Sa in ganny korize in vin an ekse a 25erdtan per week.  I fer li bokou pli konpreansiv.  Me selman lo nou kote nou vwar poudir i en presedan ki nou per i pa en bon keksoz akoz si okenn Komisyon, okenn Board , okenn Lotorite son group, e la nou pe koz the Commission nou kapab pe koz on the Authority or the Board  ki nou kapab trouv nou dan en sityasyon kot si sa bann dimoun lo sa Board  pe travay an ekse a en serten sa, zot ganny peye an plis.  E sa mon en pe per.

Alors mon ti a kontan gidans Lasanble lo ki mannyer nou devret pe fer sa.  Eski premyerman mon ava sinyal Cabinet Office ki sa S.I i devret ganny korize, e i devret vin per week.  Me lo sa kestyon ok eski nou devret gard sa akoz i ganny defini par part time work.  Ok ?  Eski nou Lasanble i kapab gid mwan lo ki mannyer nou pou anlev sa provizyon ki permet over and above bann saler ki’n ganny fikse, i annan bann peyman ki ganny fer ler travay e an ekse a serten moman.  E alor sa i en presedan.  I pa egziste.  Ziska prezan nou pa’n rankontre sa sityasyon  e mon pa konnen ki mannyer nou devret pe adres sa.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Mon trouv li de fason ki mon ti a sizere sa case i ganny rezourd.  Enn se vi ki ou annan en laliny kominikasyon ki ou’n deza etabli ek State House e zot in klarifye zot pozisyon vizavi sa S.I ki ti annan en fot selon zot.  Petet i ti devret per week olye per month.  Me menm si sa i leka Prensip sa ek sa ki pe ganny peye i deza an kontansyon.

Alor petet ou kapab eksprim ou pwennvi, e sa byensir se pwennvi en Manm ki i pa normal,  parey ou’n dir i etabli en presedans.  E ki ou annan en lentansyon –  well ou ti a kontan ki Gouvernman i re konsider sa case e regarde ki larepons ou gannyen.  Byensir nanryen pa anpes ou.  Prezan si ou pa dakor avek sa, ou anmenn en Mosyon pou demann ki sa S.I i ganny quash.

Premye opsyon parey mon pe dir ou si ou demann zot,  zot kapab re tir sa S.I lo zot menm, koriz li e re anmenn devan Lasanble.  Well zis pibliy li pa bezwen anmenn devan Lasanble.  Me selman si ou santi poudir son Prensip li menm i mal e i devret ganny retire konpletman e zot,  zot pa dakor avek then pa anpes ou anmenn en Mosyon pou demann ki ganny quash.  Sa i mon sizesyon la fason pou nou deal avek sa.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

So Mr Speaker mon ava fer li endividyelman konman en Manm.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Konman en Manm.  Mon mazinen akoz –

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Nou annan en pe letan mon krwar nou annan 3mwan pou nou –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Egzakteman.  90 zour normalman.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon ava fer sa kominikasyon avek Cabinet Office apre mon ava raport avek Lasanble dan 3enm term.  Mersi.

 

 

 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi bokou.  Bon nou’n fini clear sa matter. Prezan nou pou al direkteman lo nou travay devan nou ki Staz Komite Physical Planning Bill.  Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mr Speaker bonzour.  Bonzour tou Manm koleg.  Mon ti pe zis seek guidance of the Chair silvouple.  Mon ti pe zis wonder, eski tou Manm nou annan drwa zoure e servi langaz obsenn dan Lasanble Nasyonal?  Ouswa i en privilez Leader Biznes Gouvernman?  Mersi Mr Speaker.  

 

(Interrupiton)

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

 Sorry Leader Lopozisyon.  Eskiz mwan.  Akoz yer in zoure dan Lasanble.  Mon ti pe wonder si nou tou nou kapab zoure parey Onorab LOTO ti zoure yer ?  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non.  Normalman strikteman Lasanble i annan en langaz parlmanter ki ganny servi e nou bezwen obzerv sa dan en fason ki korek, e nou bezwen annan respe.  Parski i annan piblik ki pe ekout nou.  Alor sa se norm Lasanble Nasyonal.  Bon – mon pou demann prezan Parliamentary Reporter pou silvouple apel Minis pou Later Labita Lenfrastriktir avek son delegasyon pou nou kontiny nou travay.  E antretan mon a demann Serzan silvouple pou bouz Mace ki nou al dan Staz Komite.  Mersi bokou Serzan.  E parey nou ti’n koze yer mon krwar sete Onorab Andre ki pou diriz nou lo lekran e lo bann travay lamannman.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon mazinen Onorab Pillay ou ti pe fer enn de notes siplemanter zis an ka son sistenm laba i bezwen apel en pe ou legzizans.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Annefe Mr Chair Onorab Pillay ti volonter pou li pran tou notes.   Mwan mon pe pas lo sa ki track record. Me selman Onorab Pillay pou pran tou notes savedir li ki pou responsab pou bann notes.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon vwar sa bon lantant travay ki egziste depi bomaten i ekselan.  Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Bonzour.  Mr Speaker yer mon ti lev en size ki mon santi poudir be avek diskisyon ki ti leve, sa size in ganny oubliye e Minis pa’n donn en pti, ouswa bann teknisyen lo panel pa’n donn en rapor lo la.  Sa i annan pou fer avek universal design. Akoz ki arive Mr Speaker se ki, nou pe koz lo policy.  Mwan mon anvi konnen akoz sa bann group dimoun deor la i anvi konnen, eski sa i ganny kouver par en Lalwa ouswa i pe ganny kouver anba en policy akoz nou dir  ganny Gouvernen anba en policy me solman realite se ki zot pa pe vreman vwar sa bann keksoz i enshrine ouswa sipervizyon.  Ouswa ler bann building pe ganny fer pa pe ganny kree sa bann fasilite pou sa bann dimoun dezabilite.

Epi lot keksoz Mr Speaker, Minis dan son repons in sit bann diferan sepa pou annan Lalwa e nou pa’n ganny dir egzakteman lekel sa bann Lalwa.  Epi mon ti ava demande letan nou pe refer avek separ bann diferan chapter ant bann lezot Lalwa ki nou mansyonnen ki piblik i kapab swiv e konpran egzakteman kwa ki pe pase.  Akoz par egzanp nou pe vol Cap sepa tel limero me nou pa konnen vreman egzakteman kwa ki nou pe fer referans avek.  An menm tan pou bann Manm osi isi anndan.  Mersi bokou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi Onorab William.  Bon mon krwar Minis well les mon a dir premyerman en bonzour Minis, swet ou labyenveni avek ou delegasyon parmi nou dan Lasanble Nasyonal.  Minister Pamela Charlette.  Mon ti a kontan osi  swet labyenveni Mr Joseph Francois Chief Executive Officer Planning Authority, Mr Terry Biscornet Deputy CEO Planning Authority, Mr Gerard Hoareau Special Advisor to the Minister.  E Mr Victor Pool Senior Legal Draftsperson.  Byenveni parmi nou.  Onorab William mon krwar Minis in tann ou en pti pe e mon pa konnen si petet avan nou konmanse si Minis ou le fer en pti komanter zis pou reponn en pti pe lo sa ki Onorab William pe demande.  Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Si mon pe konpran byen Mr Speaker mon pa’n tro ganny li.  I pe demande si nou annan bann universal design ki nou aplike – right?  E ki mannyer dimoun i kapab konnen ok.  Dan – i annan bann regilasyon ki Planning pou vin avek osi ki dan buildingI mean construction regulation ,ki pou diriz bann standar ki devret mete dan bann devlopman.  E sa regilasyon li apre i pou vin pli tar.  I pou mete tou sa bann standar ki ou pou bezwen ler ou pou fer diferan devlopman.  Apre i annan bann ki nou apel bann codes osi e sa i donn bann adisyonnel standar ki pou bezwen pou diferan devlopman.  Sa i pou ganny enkli, nou ava fer regulation ki pou al avek. Apre osi bann guidelines ki Planning i annan.  I annan bokou guidelines ki Planning i annan ki pou piblik deor.  Sa i osi ava ganny enkli ladan.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minis.  Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Minister mersi pou larepons.  Me solman eski la pou le moman la, sa sitasyon savedir lefe ki napa sa bann guidelines i napa – eski i annan en obligasyon akoz parey nou pe vwar se ki bann housing estate osi pe ganny fer.

Ou annan bann dimoun dezabilite  ki ozordi mon pa konnen si Minister pe swiv sa bann case, kot provizyon pou zot akse bann batiman i napa.  So  mwan mon ti ava kontan konnen konmsi dan ki dele letan akoz en bon pe letan sa bann keksoz pe egziste.  E eski ozordi sa pe ganny mon kapab dir swivre e pou sa bann dimoun deor la zot a santi en pti pe pou dir be wi letan Gouvernman pe koz enklizivite zot pe form parti sa devlopman ki zot pe fer.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Mr Francois.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Zis pou klarifye nou building regulations pe sivre standar Angle, British standards.  E dan nou partisipasyon dan konvansyon ki relye avek dezabilite, i annan bann serten konponan ki nou pou bezwen azoute e letan nou pou reviz nou Building Regulation anba en regilasyon ki pou sivre sa Lalwa, bann konponan ki pou spesifik avek protocol avek dezabilite pou ganny enkorpore anba la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi. Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Si mon ava azoute Onorab nou annan deza bann konstriksyon sirtou sa housing estate ki enkorpor bann fasilite ladan. Akoz nou osi nou’n vwar dernyerman ki i annan en demann ler nou get nou bann aplikan lo lalis par egzanp pou lakaz.  So wi nou annan bann proze ki nou’n enkli bann fasilite pou dezabilite osi.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi.  Bon nou ava al direkteman – Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bonzour tou dimoun.  Mr Chair yer mon ti pe demann en klarifikasyon e mon pa’n neseserman satisfe ganny en larepons from the panel.  Le pwen ki mon ti pe fer se ki letan i annan en devlopman ki pa sitye dan en distrik.  E mon a donn legzanp la obor nou lo Ile Du Port i annan en manman building ki pe fer zis obor Magistrate Court.  E nou pa konnen kwa sa.  Mon a donn e legzanp letan Panjia ti pe fer.  Personnelman mon ti call Planning Authority.  E larepons ki mon ti gannyen ek sa zofisye sa letan se ki sa i en devlopman prive, ki mwan konman en sitwayen akfer mon pe rode konmsi pa akfer mon pe rode dan sa fason me zot pa oblize donn mwan lenformasyon.

So dan sa bann Regilasyon ki zot pe dir mon anvi konnen si pou annan en siny ; ki fer li obligatwar i annan en siny ki ganny mete poudir sa i en building komersyal ouswa i en landrwa rezidansyel.  Letan i pa dan distrik kot sa bann dokiman pou ale parey yer nou’n diskite.  Sirtou dan bann landrwa ki pa en distrik parey lo lasose, lo Ile du Port, en bann landrwa koumsa.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Mr Francois.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Lalwa parey i ete napa sa provizyon.  E sa provizyon ti pe ganny antisipe pou ganny kouver dan Lalwa ki pou vini ki pou regulate professionals  dan seksyon konstriksyon.  Ti pou en nouvo Lalwa ki pou vini e ladan ti annan lalis bann keksoz mandatwar ki zot bezwen donnen an relasyon avek proze.  E sa i ganny regulate through bann ethics, through bann fason travay.  So dan lezot pei fason ki sa i ganny sivre se ki, sa bann council ki deal ek sa bann profesyonnel, i require pou son profesyonnel anrezistre.

E en fason pou li garanti poudir sirveyans pe marse, se fer zot met sa stanp anrezistreman lo sa konstriksyon pou konnen lekel sa profesyonnel ki pe fer sa konstriksyon ?  Ki konstriksyon ki pe fer, pou zot kapab konnen letan pou renew ki mannyer zot pou rate sa bann profesyonnel

Now, i pa en problenm pou fer en provizyon anba regilasyon pou met li, avek bi pou donn lenformasyon.  So nou kapab regard sa pou azoute avek li anba regilasyon ki pe relye ek konstriksyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi.  Bon nou ava al direkteman.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON STEPHEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker. Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon.   En ler mon krwar sa ki Onorab Henrie pe dir pa pe zafer sa stanp, sa aplikasyon.  I sa billboard   – board ki met devan parey nou’n deza vizite avek ou.  Se sa ki nou pe rode ki vin mandatwar pou tou commercial building annan en board, regardless i prive, piblik.  Ki nou pou fer konmsi pou gete poudir piblik i ganny akse.  Be it district non district se sa mon krwar ki pe rode sa board ki met devan pou kapab idantifye sa devlopman ki pe arive.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab. Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Wi briyevman Mr Speaker mon ti ava, Mr Chairman mon ti ava kekfwa sizere ki dan sa dernyen amannman ki Leader Lopozisyon in anmennen ki konsern ‘’disclosure of all information surrounding any development.’’  Although son lamannman i konsern plis lenformasyon anamonn’ parey nou dir, ‘’before the development starts’’ kekfwa avek sa dan sa menm seksyon nou kapab fer antre sa disclosure lenformasyon lo lekel sa bann konsiltan, lekel lot.  Akoz i annan bokou dimoun i fer.

Selman i annan dimoun la mon krwar dan sa building la ki pe fer.  Akoz mon’n demande mon.  Mon’n demann Kontrakter e Kontrakter in dir mon poudir sa boug  pa tro,  tro met son non akoz taler dimoun a vwar i pe fer en gro building.  So mon pa konnen si sa bann billboard  i obligatwar par Lalwa.  Si i pa obligatwar kekfwa se la ki nou devret fer li antre dan sa seksyon, kot tou  bann lenformasyon otour en proze devlopman i ganny met a latansyon piblik.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mers Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon krwar i pou pli bon parey Onorab Ferrari in dir akoz si i ariv en sityasyon lo site, sa dimoun pa bezwen al tay deryer pou al rod sa lenformasyon si i bezwen pran en aksyon legal, oubyen si i  bezwen rod rekour deswit i konnen i pou telefonn ki sennla pou li kapab ganny sa rekour.

So mon krwar plito nou pran konsiderasyon a sa dan sa seksyon ki nou pe dir i pou vin 36.  Mon krwar nou pa ankor deside si i pou vin 36.  Me selman sa lamannman in pase an term ki mannyer i ete pou disclosure.

Me nou bezwen osi gete ki bor nou pou kit li.  Si nou pou kit li anba 11, agrandi 11 oubyen  nou pou anvoy li dan 36.  Me selman i bezwen ganny fer.  E si i ganny fer dan lalwa –   ti annan en lot keksoz ankor mon ti pe dir ki Mr Francois in dir an term pran an konsiderasyon sa ki Onorab William in dir an term bann dimoun ki annan en special ability mon apel li.

Mon krwar dan plas ki nou pran an konsiderasyon son detay ava pran ka dan regilasyon.  Mon krwar i bezwen annan en mansyon ki ganny fer dan Lalwa. Akoz demen si en keksoz pa arive ek en building sa dimoun pou kapab.  Ou konnen regilasyon doesn’t really have a strong force of law.  So i pa pou kapab dir there’s been a violation of my right under section x,y,zSo si i annan en kot i tous sa dan Lalwa, apre i dir as prescribed by the regulation kot Minis i annan anba 78 pou li fer pouvwar.  Me selman i bezwen ganny mansyonnen dan in the enabling act as well.  Sa i mon kontribisyon ki mon ti a kontan fer lo sa size.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Andre.  Bon mon’n ekout byen sa deba ki pe deroule e vreman se Manm ki bezwen deside kwa ki zot anvi antre dan Lalwa.  Me si i annan keksoz spesifik ki zot santi i devret antre dan Lalwa,  i devret annan en propozisyon.  Mon pa krwar i pe al kontrer avek lespri ki Onorab Ramkalawan in propoze dan seksyon 11.  Si i annan okenn fason pou zot propoz la dan Staz Komite en pti, de mo ki pou fer sa antre.  Propoze e nou kapab move on.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon krwar nou bezwen fer en presizyon.  Nou pa ankor pase lamannman ki Onorab Ramkalawan ti’n move.  Onorab Georges ankor pe – ti pe travay lo sa wording.  Mon krwar ki Onorab Henrie i bezwen fer, poz your fire la taler ler Onorab Georges i vini avek sa wording ki li in propoze, nou ava insert sa ladan, akoz li osi i annan bann lezot gardfou ki nou bezwen mete avek sa size disclosure bann plan, pou anpese ki i annan bann vexatious of frivolous objections towards bann plan devlopman.  Mon krwar that would be the best approach ki nou kapab fer.  Ou pwen i pertinan so nou ava met li dan sa bout la.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Pillay.  Mr Francois.

 

CEO FRANCOIS JOSEPH

Mr Chairman zis en word of cautious lo sa seksyon ki zot pe mazinen.  Akoz at the point kot en dimoun pe fer en aplikasyon, zot pou annan zis sa devloper lo papye.  Zot pou napa kontrakter, zot pou napa enzenyer, zot pou napa bann lezot akoz sa i bann soz ki vin apre.  So letan zot pe mazinen kote zot pou insert sa bann sa signboard  zot pou bezwen met li a en pwen kot tou sa bann dimoun in fini ganny idantifye lo sa proze.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi.  Mon krwar nou a pran not sa taler ler dan drafting of sa seksyon relevan.  Ok.  Onorab Ghislain.

 

HON CHANTAL  GHISLAIN

Bonzour Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon  lentervansyon i en  pti pe lo zot ti pe dir bann regilasyon i napa en pwen legal.  Be eski bann regilasyon pa i vin dan form S.I?  Akoz mon annan detrwa kopi bann S.I ki atase avek bann Lalwa kot zot.  Eski pa i deza i annan son pwen legal avek?  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi absoliman.  Mon pwennvi se ki okenn regilasyon i form parti Lalwa.  Eksepte ki en regilasyon pa ganny drafte dan Lasanble; i ganny drafte par Minis i en pouvwar ki’n ganny delege avek Minis me i annan menm lafors Lalwa ki nenport morso Lezislasyon.  Onorab Andre annou kontinyen avek pwen No. 13.

 

HON CLIFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.  En regilasyon i en subordinate law to en Act so, se sa rezon ki mwan mon pe dir konman en avoka ki’n etidye mon pe dir ki i bezwen ganny lafors Lalwa, dan en enabling actOk?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Onorab Andre annou kontinyen avek pwen 13.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Prezan Mr Chair.  An referans avek, an referans avek seksyon 11 wording Onorab Pillay i la so mon pou propoz sa wording ki Onorab Georges ti’n mete yer in terms of – en pti moman en pti moman.  Ok nou pe dir to add on or to make it become section 36 en. Kot i dir Mr Pool ou a swiv mwan nou a gete ki mannyer nou pou travay la.  Instead of ‘3’ i pou vin ‘1’.  ‘‘The Authority shall prior to considering an application for planning permission, 

  1. a) refer the application to the appropriate district or regional authorities for their consideration and comments within a prescribed period.
  2. b) ensure that the application in a form prescribe such as to provide relevant information whilst respecting the privacy right of an applicant, shall be displayed in the offices of the appropriate district or regional authorities for public viewing and comments;
  3. c) inform owners of a joining properties of any propose development application.

 Apre 2. 

‘’For any propose development of an outlying island the application shall be displayed at the office of the Mayor of Victoria and notice given in the public media’’.

Sa i proposal prezan si sa i an konformite avek legal draftsperson ki kapab gid nou lo la.  Me selman de la mon pou sizere ki pou pran konsiderasyon sa ki nou dir in terms of disclosure nou kapab met disclosure of 3 en, sub 3, nou kapab met ‘‘disclosure of persons undertaking the project shall be’ – sorry – ‘‘undertaking the project shall be after approval be affixed on site’’.  So zis pou pran ka sa akoz Onorab, I mean CEO i dir ki poudir definitivman ou pa pou konnen letan i pe anvoy aplikasyon, be selman pou fer provizyon ki ladan sa dimoun apre i disclose sa bann lenformasyon, oubyen i affix sa bann lenformasyon lo site pou piblik konnen.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker  Mr Speaker petet  pou fer sa en pti pe pli kler pa ti a bon nou dir ‘’where in respect of any development disclosure of’’, prezan ou a kontiny sa bout ‘’shall be affixed on site.’’

Prezan mon krwar nou bezwen kalifye any development.  Si i en private dwelling house, mon pa konnen si ou pou al met sa signboard.  Petet pou reponn ou kestyon where respect of any development of national importance or magnitude –  mon krwar se sa ki Onorab Henrie li i pe konsernen avek.  E mon krwar la ou pou bezwen annan en (4).

‘‘Where any development does not fall within the boundaries of a district or Authority the plan for such development shall be displayed’’ parey dan sa fason ki ou’n dir ‘in the office of the Mayor of Victoria’.  E sa i a reponn ou kestyon petet mon krwar.  So ou a bezwen annan ou ava annan en subclause 3 petet fer sub clause 3 vin 4 e fer subclause 3 vin sa disclosure an relasyon avek bann devlopman ki an deor en distrik.  Lo  Por – lo Erport. lo Erport i kapab Pointe Larue me ki pa tonm dan en distrik spesifik.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

So Onorab Pillay ou pe dir 3 i kapab reste 3, me selman i annan en kalifikasyon ladan?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ki mon pe propoze mwan ou 3 kot ou’n met ‘‘disclosure of individuals’’ ki pe undertake sa proze annou fer li vin 4, akoz li i pou kouver nenport ki proze li.  Prezan nou a met en lot 3.  Sa 3 prezan i a pran konsiderasyon bann gro proze parey sa building ki Onorab Ferrari in mansyonnen. Building ki lot pe fer la.  Whatever bann proze ki annan ki an deor boundary en distrik per se.  E sa plan i ava ganny displayed dan la fason ki ou’n dir pou outer islands or inner island dan lofis ki nou’n propoze la nou propoz Mayor’s officeSo ki mon pe propoze nou dir ‘‘where in respect of any development’’.  Prezan nou bezwen klarifye ki kalite devlopman nou pe koz lo la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon si mon kapab zis – pou nou bouz ase vit.  Onorab Pillay ou annan en propozisyon, 3 ek 4. Drafte li.  Donn en kopi Onorab Andre.  Zot a koz lo menm paz e koumsa nou a kapab – wi. So mon sizere prensip nou dakor lo la drafting ki reste, annou kit sa pending e nou move lo lezot pwen.  Solman nou’n dakor lo prensip.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON STEPHEN PILLAY

Mr Speaker zis en pti pwen ki kekfwa ki – en pti  amannman.  Ler pe dir District Authority or Regional Authority dan plas met ‘or’ nou ti a met ‘’and Regional Authority.’’  Akoz?  Non ou a met District Authority and Regional Authority akoz i annan zis 6,7 Regional Council epi i annan 25 distrik.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon sa i en propozisyon. Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Speaker. Zisteman mon ti pe al adres sa.  Mon annan en konsern avek wording sa lamannman akoz nou pe enshrine the concept of Regional Authorities anba Lalwa Physical Planning.  Nou pe enshrine e keksoz ki li i pa legalman annan en stati legal pou li menm li !  I napa en Lalwa e la Onorab Pillay in give voice ki nou pe koz lo Regional Councils.  Be Regional Council i en kreasyon politik – en nespes batar ‘’koabitasyon’’ ki’n fini mor an desan avek son koabitasyon!  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Loze. Bon mon krwar yer sa size in deza ganny kouver.  E sa mo ‘’council’’ pa’n ganny servi zisteman akoz i pa nenport, i pe pran an konsiderasyon nenport body ki ozordi oubyen a lavenir i kapab egziste.  Se pou sa rezon in apel li ‘’Authorities’’ e in gard li dan sa format.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON STEPHEN PILLAY

Non Mr Speaker pa pe al dan Regional Council lo sa zistans. Me ler en Manm pe dir Regional Council i illegal  i pa napa baz legal. Be US in fer keksoz ilegal ki dan Gouvernman pe fer?  Regional Council i legal anba Local Government.  I en brans Local Government.  Ki mannyer i pa legal?  Local Government i legal.  Mersi Mr Speaker.  Be Lalwa Local Government ki viv anba la.  Sorry pou mon …

 

(Interrupiton)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Annou  pa bezwen  al dan deba si lo Regional Council.  Deba i pa lo la.  Deba i lo seksyon 11 e ki mannyer nou word li!  Onorab Andre ou ti le –

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

(Off-Mic)

Non mon ti pou kontinyen.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Kontinyen annou kontinyen.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon krwar nou pou bezwen konnen poudir nou pe focus lo Physical Planning la.  So ilegalite bann soz pa soz la. So nou pou bouz lo seksyon 12 napa, clause 12 napa okenn issue.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ti napa nou ti pou al lo 13.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Nou annan 13.  Ok mon vwar in met 13 osi.  ‘’Upon.’’ Nou pou al lo –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

13 mon krwar anba (2) subclause (2), zis apre subsection (I) ti annan en comma.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Yes en comma sorry. En comma la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair mon oule zis en klarifikasyon from the panel.  Letan mon vwar dan nou 13(1) ler i dir ‘’on the recommendation of the Board’’.  Savedir eski nou pe koz menm model ki egziste ozordi dan SBC Act kot the post parey i dir dan 13(2, ‘’the post will be advertised.’’ bann kandida pou ganny interview by the Board.  Apre sa (1) ou (2) ou (3) ki zot santi kapab hold the post will be recommended to the President.’’  Eski i pou mars egzakteman parey anba SBC Act i ete ozordi?  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Henrie.  Mon a les petet Minis reponn.  Me zis avan ou reponn Minis ankor en amannman dan seksyon 13 si mon lir korekteman se kot i met ‘’the President shall i vin upon,’’ pa ‘’on.’’ Sa sete proposed amendment par Bills Committee.  So mon a les Minis reponn si rekomandasyon pou baze lo bann seleksyon ki’n  ganny fer apre ki zot in interview plizyer e zot in tender sa pozisyon.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker sa provizyon i fer parey pou tou bann apwentman CEO’s ki fer konmela.  So i annan en nominasyon ki al kot Prezidan e Prezidan li i apwente.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi.  Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

I pa neseserman100poursan kler pou mwan.  Ozordi mwan ki mannyer mon konpran anba SBC Act the post of CEO and Deputy is advertise. ‘’ En dimoun i apply, Board i interview li prezan Board i swazir i kapab anvoy zis enn i kapab anvoy de i kapab anvoy 3.  Be solman apre ki zot in advertise zot in interview zot in selekte poudir (1), (2), (3) i kapab fer anvoy rekomandasyon e Prezidan li  i swazir dan sa either (1) ou (2) ou (3). So mon anvi konnen si la dan sa 13(1) e 14(1) i mars egzakteman parey dan SBC Act. Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Henrie. Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mr Speaker ler ou pe get seksyon 2 i met ‘‘the Board  shall before making recommendation under subsection 1 advertise the post of Chief Executive Officer specifying the qualification for the post’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon krwar i reponn sa.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair ou vwar par egzanp pou SBC, SBC Act i pou dir ou ‘‘the President shall appoint a Chief Executive Officer from candidates who have applied to the Board ‘’So si it’s the same spirit. sa ki mon anvi konnen, whether i pe reflekte sa same spirit?  Parey anba SBC Act.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Henrie.  Bon mon krwar si ou santi i devret annan en amannman mon krwar let’s propose it now.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Se sa akoz si – if it’s not the same spirit –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Akoz sansan i pou open to interpretation

 

HON GERVIAS HENRIE

Wi mon ti a ava prefere ki i egzakteman the wording is like the SBC Act.   What should be ‘‘the President shall appoint the Chief Executive Officer from candidates who have applied from the Board  in respect of the post on such terms and condition as may be prescribed’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Sa i en propozisyon.  Mon pa konnen ki lo kote legal ki mannyer Bills Committee i vwar sa i kapab antre etandonnen ki tou i deza la.  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Zis pou fer Onorab – pou pran notes, akoz mon vwar mon koleg anyway mon pa konnen kekfwa i pe pran notes viva voce parey i dir.  Me zis pou fer Onorab Henrie repete pou mwan kapab note ki i pe dir an term proposal.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Henrie zis restate.

 

HON GERVIAS HENRIE

Sa ki mon ti pe lir i dir ’‘‘The President shall appoint a Chief Executive Officer from candidates who have applied to the Board  in respect of the post on such terms and condition as may be prescribed’’.  Wi this is what.  Onorab Georges pe dir mwan the same effectSo mon ti pe anvi panel i konfirm ek mwan poudir this is the same spirit that exist dan sa clause la. If it’s the same I don’t have a problem with that.  But if it’s no,t mon ti ava prefere vwar en amannman.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Panel Minis eski ou santi poudir i menm lespri ki sa Lalwa pe propoze ?

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mr Speaker mon krwar seksyon de i kler.  Si ou pe advertise en post ou bezwen advertise li i annan en kriter ki oubyen kalifikasyon, leksperyans whatnot.  E apre sa Chief Executive Officer i – sa Board i swazir apre i fer rekomandasyon avek Prezidan, Prezidan li i fer son neseser.  Mon krwar i menm spiritWhichever ou ekrir li   mon krwar i pe mean menm keksoz.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Akoz Mr Chair pou mwan ler dan 13(2) i dir ‘‘advertise the post of Chief Executive Officer’’, ou advertise.  Me i pa vedir en candidate in applied. Li SBC Act i dir ou ‘‘from candidates who have applied’’So akoz si ou advertise personn pa apply. So pou mwan mon anvi konpran whether zot santi poudir i reflekte sa spirit dan sa clause parey SBC Act.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair mon konpran ki Onorab pe dir be sa ki SBC Act i dir ek sa ki la- SBC Act i dir sa dan en clause.  Sa ki la i dir sa dan 2 clause. I menm zafer ki ou pe dir akoz pou sa dimoun apply li i bezwen konnen i annan en vacancy pou li apply for the post of CEO Planning AuthoritySo i deza la.  Mon krwar nou pe sa ki deza dan sa Lalwa i dir menm keksoz ki Onorab Henrie pe rode. It’s clear.  Prezan ki ou bezwen met an konsiderasyon Onorab  Henrie,  ou Board  ki ou’n ganny apwente.  Ou Board  osi in pas  en litmus test ki dapre zot i pli o akoz sa Board  prezan ki pe ganny referred to.  I en Board  ki’n ganny apwente through lekel.  Through CAASo.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mon pa konnen akoz ou pe- mon krwar nou kapab bouze lo la.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon krwar  pou nou bouze mon pa vwar okenn harm pou nou enkli sa ki Onorab Henrie pe propoze pou bann dimoun ki’n apply.  Vre in met akoz ou konnen, mon konpran ki i pe dir pou safe guard en  possible abuse kot zis ou advertise apre ou dir mwan vini mon apwent ou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok annou annan en  proposal on the table avan.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair bonzour.  Bonzour bann Manm. Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon.  Mon pe swiv sa ki pe ganny dir e out of an abundance of caution, parey nou kontan dir isi dan sa Lasanble menm si Onorab Basil Hoareau nepli avek nou, mon pe fer sa propozisyon swivan.

Pou azout avek 13(2) a lafen apre sa mo ‘post’ – ‘‘and make recommendations from persons who have so applied’’.  Ok.  E sa mon krwar se sel bout ki ti pe manke pou fer sir ki avan en rekomandasyon i ganny fer post CEO i a ganny advertised e Board  ava fer son rekomandasyon lo labaz bann dimoun ki’n applied pou sa post.  Mon krwar sa se mon propozisyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi. Eski sa propozisyon  i ganny segonde?  Segonde.  Eski nou pran en vot oubyen.  Minis eski nou ti a kontan tann ou lo sa propozisyon.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mon napa problenm avek sa Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok very goodSo Onorab Georges ou le ki nou pran en vot la konmela oubyen nou pran en vot final ler nou fer tou bann– ? 

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Either way Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Let’s take a vote on section – akoz in en pwen ki nou’n debat lo la omwen 20 minit.  So Onorab Georges zis propose li then we’ll take a vote. 

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

13(2) i ava lir e Onorab e mon’n fer sa lamannman lo mon text isi.  ‘‘The Board  shall before making recommendation under subsection 1, advertise the post of Chief Executive Officer specifying the qualifications mon’n azout en ‘s’ akoz mon krwar i meyer for the post, and make recommendations for persons who have so applied’’. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Eski ou met en comma apre subsection 1.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

‘‘And make its recommendation from persons who have so applied’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Sa Mosyon in deza ganny segonde.  Eski nou kapab pran en vot lo la ? Tou Manm an faver? Eski tou Manm i an faver? Tou bann Manm ki an faver lev zot lanmen silvouple ?

Okenn Manm ki kont?

Madanm Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count? Donn nou count Madanm Deputy Clerk..

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bonzour a tous.  Mon’n rikord 19 Manm ki’n vot an faver e personn kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

19 an faver, personn kont.  Savedir sa amannman lo 13(2) i pase.  Nou a kontinyen.  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

14(1) pou azout sa mo ‘’conditions as may be prescribed.’’  Mon pa krwar i annan okenn problenm avek akoz –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Sa mo i deza la akoz Bills Committee in propose se ‘‘The President shall upon the recommendation of the Board  appoint a Deputy Chief Executive Officer on such terms and conditions as may be prescribed’’.  Se sa?

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Yes, yes. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So nou ok ek saOk. Lot.  Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mon pe zis demande si Lasanble i santi ki li osi sa dimoun Deputy CEO i pou parey sa lamannman ki nou fek fer i en post ki ou bezwen apply ? E sa i osi ankor le ka pou SBC Act, the Deputy CEO osi tou i apply.  So si nou pou konsistan.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

E ou kapab propoze lamannman kot i vini anba 14?

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Be savedir azout parey dan 13(2). ‘’And make it’s recommendation from persons who have so applied.’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.  Eski i vin apre ‘’prescribed?’’

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

It’s a new subsection 2 Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Wi and then 2 will become 3.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

  1. OK. Zis tenny ou Ok – Onorab Georges ki ou sizere konman drafting?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Sa se sel fason fer Mr Chair.  Mersi.  Selman nou bezwen zis sanz Chief Executive Officer fer li vin Deputy Chief Executive Officer.  Me nou pe pran 13(2) e nou pe pran 14(2) fer li vin egzakteman parey zis avek sa mo ‘’Deputy instead of Chief Executive Officer.’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir nou pe entrodwir en nouvo sou seksyon 2 ki pou lir :-‘ ‘the Board  shall before making recommendation under subsection 1, advertise the post of Deputy Chief Executive Officer specify in the qualifications for the post and make recommendations’’ parey ou ti’n propoze oparavan parey nou ti’n vot lo la. Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBSTIEN PILLAY

Zis pou rikord, eski nou kapab ganny the wording correctly e?.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Onorab Georges si ou pa mind zis read the words, parey i devret ete.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Nouvo propozisyon se en nouvo Clause 14(2) ki ava lir comme swit.  ‘The Board shall before making recommendation under subsection 1, advertise the post of Deputy Chief Executive Officer specifying the qualifications for the post and make its recommendations for the persons who have so applied’.’  Apre 2 i vin 3 eksetera, eksetera.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi eski Mosyon in ganny segonde?

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Segonde.  Eski nou kapab pran en vot lo lamannman 14(2). Tou Manm bann faver?

Okenn Manm ki kont?

Deputy Clerk?

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  21 Manm in vot an faver e personn kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

21 Manm an faver.  Savedir nou’n pas en lamannman 14(2) e 14(2) i vin 14(3).  Kontinyen Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Seksyon I mean clause 15.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Zis avan nou ale eski i annan en sanzman dan nouvo 14(3) prezan parski lamannman Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair wi mon krwar Onorab Andre napa – devan sa ki Onorab Andre pe swiv ki lo Board  napa sa margin avek bann bubble, alor i pa pe vwar sa bann propozisyon.  Fodre i swiv the track version an menm tan ki i pe swiv lo sa enn.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Be si mon kapab propoze prezan vi ki nou ti’n dakor yer poudir ler ou pou tournen, ou pou take over sa rol e vi ki ou annan track changes devan ou, si ou kapab take over lo sa bann  track changes.  I pou fer li pli fasil.  Parski i napa devan li.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mr Chair Onorab Georges pa pe – mon annan sa devan mwan.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Anr ou annan.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

I lo annefe. Mr Chair nou bezwen serye nou pa dan  bann lakres la pou vin riy konmsi. I ti en keksoz ki yer ti pe fer. I annan  bann manrmay – nou pe fer parey bann manrmay dan sa Lasanble. Ki si sa sa?  Ou konnen Mr Chair ki- akoz sa ki ou pe vwar la i lo sa enn computer e sa track record i lo sa enn computer so definitivman i pou annan en enterval ant –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  si ou vwar li devan ou kontinyen.  So 14(3)(a).  Zis donn nou ou bann sanzman e nou kontinyen.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

14(3)(a)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

I nouvo 14(a).avan i ti 14(2)

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Wi be i reste parey except ki i annan Board ki’n ganny azoute dan 14(3)(b).  Unless mon pe sa ki mwan mon pe gete i pa sa track version ki – ok i annan sorry 14(2)(a) ki’n vin 14(3)(a).  I annan sa ki la ‘‘discharge the functions of the Chief Executive Officer when the Chief Executive Officer is absent or on leave or has delegated’’.  Nou tir ‘function’, nou’n tir ‘s’ osi –  ‘the’ sorry.  ‘’Delegated functions to the Deputy Chief Officer’’. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok annou al lo lot. (b)

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

(b) i annan en kot Board  nou azout Chief – performance (b).  ‘‘Perform such other functions as may be assigned to the Deputy Chief Executive Officer by the Board ‘’. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me sa ki mon vwar dan komanter se ki ‘‘perform such other functions as the Board  may assigned to him or her’’.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Ou kapab repet sa Mr Chair ki ou’n dir la?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

14(3)(b) li i pou lir ‘‘perform such other functions such as the Board  may assigned to him or her’’.  Mon pa vwar lo lekran laba parski i pa ban komanter ki vizib kot mwan mon ete.  Me selman devan mwan la mon track version i kler.  Onorab Ernesta.

 

HON PAUL ERNESTA

Thank you Mr Chair.  Sorry may I suggest baze lo sizesyon ki ou’n propoze pli boner.  Lefe ki Chairman i la i annan tou sa bann lenformasyon plito i proceed avek bann lenformasyon ki mon vwar ki Onorab li osi i manke.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Akoz nou pa vwar bubbles anler so i pe vin difisil.  I pe retard nou louvraz so Onorab Georges gid mwan silvouple akoz nou pe tarde.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi.  Mr Chair Onorab Andre annefe i annan tousala devan li.  Zis si i met son cursor lo sa mo par egzanp konman i met son cursor lo sa mo Board i pou vwar sa alternative wording e i ava gid nou.  Se sa ki i bezwen fer akoz la i annan en alternative wording ki pe ganny propoze pou konsiderasyon Minis.  E sa alternative wording dan sa pti kare zis par lao Board.  Nou kapab vwar li lo Board  e i ava vwar li lo son computer.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok si nou napa lobzeksyon lo 13(3)(b).  Nou kontinyen nou al lo 15(b).  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi.  Mr Chair petet annou zis fer sir nou ganny keksoz byen.  So Minis i annan sa alternative wording in ganny konsidere. I zis kosmetik.  That’s fine avek zot non?  Ale thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Annou al lo 15(b).  I en senp lamannman.  Onorab Andre, ale.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Wi insert the word ‘‘other’’ 15(b).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Napa lobzeksyon nou bouze.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Napa lobzeksyon.  E anba 15(b) with regards to ‘‘as is necessary for the effective performance of the function, exercise of the powers’’.  Epi i annan.  Mon pa krwar i annan okenn obzeksyon.  Epi i annan ‘‘and’’ as well.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

‘‘And attainment of the objects of the Authority’’.  Ti annan  en komanter ‘CS12 (1)’.  Ki ou le dir par sa Onorab Georges?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair sa ti en kestyon ki ti’n leve dan Bills Committee.  Seksyon 12 i donn Board  fonksyon ek pouvwar.  Alor ki la ti annan zis fonksyon e sa ki nou pe propoze se pou azout pouvwar osi.  Alor se pou sa rezon ki nou dir ‘’functions, performance of functions and exercise of the powers and attainment of the object.’’  Se sa – pou fer li merge pli byen avek seksyon 12.  Se sa propozisyon ki nou ti pe annan.  Me pou transparans konplet CEO avek Deputy CEO ti dir nou ki Lotorite i kapab – i annan – i fer fonksyon me bann pouvwar i avek Board.  Alor se pou sa rezon ki nou’n met sa la devan ozordi pou gete si zot aprouv sa propozisyon oubyen si nou reste avek the original draft. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Nou al lo 16(1)(b).  Onorab Andre.  Subpart 4 ‘’Funds and account of the Authority.’’  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

 Ok, sorry Mr Chair.  Pou rikord seksyon clause 16(1)(b) pou lir koumsa‘’Money is received by the Authority from any other source, including donations, gifts or grants for the purpose of discharging the functions of’’  sa ki in insert ‘‘the Authority’.’ So i pe dir pou li desarz sa bann responsabilite pou li ganny sa bann zafer.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi.  Kontinyen.  Lot mon krwar 16(2)(b).

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Lot 16(2) (b) i annan ‘‘officers’’ avek en ‘s’ pou mete la.  Epi pou nou insert ‘‘after committees or service contractors of the Authority’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So i spesifye en pti pe pli byen kwa ki larzan pou ganny servi pou peye.  Ok tre byen nou al lo 17(2).

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

‘17(2) pou insert ‘‘as’’ pou li lir ‘the authority shall keep proper accounts and other relevant records of accounts, and prepare in respect of each financial year a statement in such form and manner as approved by the Auditor General’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Kontinyen.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Nou bouze Mr Chair.  Nou bouze nou al lo lot.  18(1).  So pou delete apre annual report ‘‘has to’’ and to insert ‘‘of’’ so a sa pwen i pou lir ‘‘The Authority shall, at the end of each financial year, prepare an annual report of the activities and operations of the Authority during the year’’ met comma.  Which i annan en question report. Sa i bezwen zis en question ki’n bezwen ganny demande.  Konmsi an referans avek ki rapor ‘’shall be approved by the Board.’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Selman i ti’n propose en alternative wording

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Alternative wording ‘‘The Authority shall at the end of each financial year prepare an annual report of the activities and operations of the Authority during that year and submit such report for the approval by the Board ‘’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon trouv sa enn la i lir pli byen selman eski nou adopte sa alternative wording alors. Keep the original oneOk.  Which report shall be approved by the Board?  Minister.  Minister lekel ki ou prefere?

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Alternative report. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir nou pou adopte ‘The Authority at the end of each financial year shall prepare  an annual report of the activities of the operations and the Authority during that year and submit such report for approval by the Board ’.  Ok.  Nou kontinyen.  Kontinyen Onorab Andre. 19(2). Sub part V – ‘’Disclosure of interest protection and confidentiality.’’

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Yes sa i 19(2)(b).  Pe delete in (b) ‘‘be present’’ at’ e pou insert ‘‘attend the deliberations’’So sa i an referans avek en manm Komite ki annan lentere direk.  ‘‘Or participate in the process of the Board or the Committee in relation to that matter’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi Onorab Andre.  Onorab Ferrari ou ti le fer en komanter.  Zis tenny ou mic Onorab Andre. Mersi Onorab Ferrari

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mersi mon ti a zis kontan akoz mon krwar the spirit ki nou diskit ladan i osi enportan kantmenm i pa toultan the wording.

Dan sa clause 19 nou pe sey asire ki okenn manm Board  ki annan en lentere i pa desid i pa pran bann desizyon, i pa la ler bann desizyon i ganny pran.

Me de keksoz la.  Ler nou dir ‘’corporate or an incorporate body’’, parti politik i tonm ladan.  En parti politik konmela i en ‘’corporate body.’’  E the CEO i always attend the Board meetings, because he must attend the Board meetings because he must attend the Board meetings.  I cannot see how the Board can function without the presence of the CEO.  So eski nou bezwen en wording spesifik pou protez CEO or to keep or to request that a CEO shall –  Akoz la mannyer i ete la si sa CEO i annan en lentere direk oubyen endirek dan en parti politik, i bezwen recuse son lekor dan tou bann  desizyon ki konsern sa parti politik. Fine sa enn.

Me selman i kapab lev en query all along, konmsi dan tou distrik, dan tou proze pou dir be Sesel i ti pti, sa pa’n ganny er akoz sa akoz entel akoz mwan mon laba mwan mon laba.  So eski i annan en keksoz ki nou kapab fer pou sa pou nou met en zistans ant sa de keksoz, pou fer sir ki nou at arms length?  Sa en kestyon ki mon poze Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski ou pe propoze ki san prezans CEO dan sa Board,   sa Board meeting pa kapab kontinyen?  Mon krwar i kapab kontinyen san CEO parski i annan lezot Manm Board ki prezan.  E li i ganny konsidere konman.  Me selman mon ganny gide par bann lavwa legal.  So mon pa konnen si-  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mwan mon krwar ki rezondet par deryer annan en CEO avek en Deputy CEO, se dan labsans CEO Deputy CEO i kapab fer sa travay oubyen vice versa.  So si CEO i annan en lentere direk oubyen endirek dan en case ki pe ganny pran an konsiderasyon par Board,  i deklar sa mon krwar i apropriye –  i deklar sa epi Deputy CEO i take over.   E  i transmet sa lenformasyon letan meeting i fini lo aksyon ki pou ganny fer.  Mon krwar it  is taken care of in terms of the Deputy CEO.  So i pou kapab fonksyonnen menm dan labsans CEO.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir nou adopte 19(2)(b) parey in ganny propoze.  Annou kontinyen Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Me selman Mr Chair, letan mon pe get 4 i dir an term si en dimoun pa’n disclose would be simply removal from office.  Me mon krwar sa i tro lenient.  Akoz si ou’n partisip dan en deliberasyon kot ou konnen ou annan en konfli lentere e en desizyon in ganny pran, mon pa krwar senpleman removal from office is appropriate.

Mon krwar i devret annan en pti pe plis aksyon ki ganny pran pou fer li vin mandatwar, ki en dimoun kantmenm remotely i santi i annan en lentere i disclose sa.  Prezan si Board i dir non, non nou, nou pa vwar ki sa i en konfli lentere alors reste la he is covered but mon krwar nou devret azout en pti pe plis in terms of removal of office e mwan mon ti a sizere ki nou mete is liable to a fine and removal from office, ki nou pa pou anvoy li prizon me solman to a fine of not less than R20 thousand and not more than R200 thousand and removal from office at least.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay ou ti’n –

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon krwar petet zis pou gid nou, annou pran konsiderasyon ki bann Manm sa Lotorite Plan enkli son bann Manm Board zot bann public officers for the purpose mon krwar Seksyon 91 a 92 si mon pa tronpe Penal Code.  I deza kouver ki si zot act ultra vires  i pa zis  zot pou ganny sispann, me si sa i ganny challenge – i ganny prouve poudir zot in fer more than that zot deza vin liable anba Penal Code pou en lofans.  

So mon pa konnen si i neseser pou met sa la akoz la nou pe fer sa act ki’n fer la ki dan lezot Lalwa i annan ki zis removal from office, nou pe raise the threshold, pou fer li vin almost en criminal offence which should not be the case.  I deza ganny kouver.  I deza ganny kouver anba lot seksyon.

Akoz si in act koumsa e li knowingly i konnen poudir in fer en breach e sa plan in aprouve pou li ganny en gen, this is what you have to prove.  Me si i pa’n ganny en gen from sa plan, I don’t see why ki  i devret pe enkli sa that i ganny fine dan sa konteks la.  Me I stand to be corrected.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi Onorab Pillay. Onorab Andre eski ou le propoze, ou le ganny segonde ou le pran en vot?  Ki mannyer nou pou ale la?

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mwan mon oule propoze ki nou met well number of sa sonm pou sa fine, nou kapab dir i debatable, me selman mon pe sizere ki apre shall be liable to a fine of not more than x amount and not less than x amount and to removal from office. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok fer ou propozisyon.  I bezwen annan en – Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Avan ki i fer Mr Chair, nou pa kapab al direkteman lo en fine.  Akoz i bezwen annan en Lotorite ki bezwen fine e lekel ki sa Lotorite ki pou fine sa dimoun ?  Fodre nou kree en lofans, e la nou pe al dan en lot difikilte.  Fodre ou fer li vin en lofans pou en Manm Board  pa dir ki i annan en lentere e sa lofans apre i ava ganny fine.  Me ou pa kapab ganny fine without there being an offence.

E mon konpran kote Onorab Andre pe ale, me mon krwar i overly complicate sa zafer, akoz essentially i e zafer Lanplwa sa.  Ou pa disclose ou ganny pouse.  Mon krwar sa i ase konman en sanksyon.  E in any event parey in ganny dir sa desizyon i fasil pou li ganny quash anba judicial review akoz in annan en konfli lentere.  Alor mon krwar sa i annan selon mwan sifizaman sanksyon san ki nou al kree en lot lofans.  Ok.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok annou move on.  Seksyon 20.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mr Chair Onorab Georges in propoz en keksoz ki an referans avek seksyon 19 ki mwan mon pa subscribe to.  Akoz letan i dir contravene subsection 1, automatically i annan en contravention of a section which imposes something.

So mwan mon pe still move ki nou bezwen met en – because removal from office is after committing a contraventionSo mwan mon krwar nou bezwen met en pti keksoz ki pa pe point lo en dimoun ki pou fer sir ki Board  Members or anyone discloses, sa i pa aplik zis pou CEO sa  aplik pou tou Board  Members.  Demen mwan mon ganny apwente lo Board  pe fer en devlopman ki konsern mwan, mon bezwen recuse mon lekor.  So se lo sa baz ki mon pe dir sa.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.  Onorab Andre zis tenny ou mic.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon pe zis demande si 20(2) Onorab Andre, 20(2) pa take care of that.  Mon pe zis demande kot i dir ‘‘The Chair person of the Board Members committee members, officers and sa – shall be deemed to be employed near the public service for the purposes of that that that of the Penal Code.  91 and 96 of the Penal Code’.’  So under Penal Code there will be provisions for adjudicating on those matters, non?  Mon pa konnen si mon annan rezon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari. Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Bonzour Mr Chair.  Bonzour Minis ek ou delegasyon, tou Manm Onorab.  Mwan  Mr Chair mon dakor ek Onorab Andre e mon krwar nou devret al plis ki sa.  Mete son term prizon tou 5an sepa kwa.  E an plis i aplik pou tou Board.  Tou Lotorite tou Board tou bann zafer.  Konmsi pa zis Planning partou.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Nou pe fer en Lalwa.  Nou pa pe fer Lalwa pou tou Board. So sa mo premye komanter.  So annou annan en proposed text ki ganny segonde ki ganny – nou tonm dakor e ki tou bann lavwa legal i ganny vwar dan en sel fason.  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mr Chair mwan mon proposal is,’’ a member of a committee of a member or a committee member who knowingly contravene subsection 1 and 2, shall be liable to a fine of not more than or not less than R10 thousand and not more than R100 thousand and removal from office.’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair konman en Manm Lasanble ou pe kree en lofans.  This is against the Constitution.  It’s against the very spirit of the Constitution.  Ou pe kree en lofans anba e Lalwa pou en keksoz ki napa en lofans kan Onorab Ferrari is absolutely right.  Ou’n fini kree en lofans anba Penal Code.  Ou’n deza fer sa dimoun pey en lofansI think this is not even an abundance of caution. This is an abuse of a power ki nou annan!

Onorab Georges in fer kler this i an employment issue.  Sa dimoun i pa’n discloseSo ok si mon pa disclose en lentere dan en devlopman ki vo R300milyonis the fine proportionate to what I’m going to get?  Si mon pa disclose mon lentere to en devlopman ki vo plis ankor, is the fine proportionate to what mon pe al gannyen?  Non.

I deza kree kondisyon ki mon pa disclose mon lentere, mon ganny sispann me mon still liable anba criminal code. Anba criminal procedure code.  Anba Penal Code.  Mon still liable akoz mon kapab prezan ganny targeted anba la poudir mon’n fer en lofans anba la e la prezan i ava annan bann sanksyon apropriye ki pou ganny pran.  I think we have to be careful.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon mersi Onorab Pillay.  Bon mon bezwen ganny gide si this is an amendment ki substantial enough ki pe demann petet lezot lamannman e alor nou pa pou kapab pran li at this stageSo Onorab Georges silvouple gid mwan.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon ti anvi zis sey trouv en solisyon.  Lo nou text ki devan nou si Onorab Andre i al lo clause 20(2) e i met son cursor lo sa highlighted the i pou vwar nou Legal Advisor Lasanble in dir nou ki si sa, sa bann Seksyon 91 ziska 96 Code Civil.  So la.

E i posib ki enn ant sa bann lofans parey Onorab Ferrari in dir, i ava kouver sa ki nou pe regarde la.   I pa direkteman lo la me mon pe regard kekfwa 95 ‘false claims by official’.  Oubyen 96 ‘abuse of Authority of office’.  Si ou pa disclose en keksoz i posib ki ou pe fer en false claim.  Ou pe claim ki ou napa en lentere oubyen ki ou pe abiz Lotorite ou lofis.  Alors ou ava in any event ganny captured par sa bann seksyon  code penal.  E mon fer sa a Onorab Andre pou son konsiderasyon.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Nou kapab bouze Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Annou bouze.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Bon 20 nou pe dir Legal Advisor in met alternative wording.  ‘‘No civil or criminal liability shall be attached to the Authority, a Member e committee member an officer or employer of the Authority in respect of any act done or omitted to be done in good faith in the performance of their functions as the case may be’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski ou mic i on?

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Yes.  Yes. Mwan mon krwar parey yer Onorab Ferrari ti pe dir what is good faith?  Ou konnen ki mannyer nou pou kalifye li akoz si ou pa deklar ou – annou get byen si ou pa deklar ou lentere dan sa dokiman it’s meant to be bad faith.  Be si ou subjectively ou dir, I was doing it in good faith, akoz sa i konsern, i konsern mon fanmir.  So Lalwa will take care of it.  Me selman eski nou bezwen met en alternative wording.  Mwan mon kontribisyon se ki nou bezwen get byen la with regards to alternative wording.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  So Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mr Speaker mon a fer mon pwen zeneral lo merit sa Clause 20 la. Mon krwar mon kapab dan en sans mon pe koz, mon pe advocate pou en pozisyon ki Prezidan Faure i annan li menm.  Akoz Prezidan Faure mon’n tann li pe dir dernyerman poudir bann Board  Members i bezwen, nou bezwen move dan en direksyon kot Board  Members i pran responsabilite pou bann desizyon ki zot pran.  Dan en sans ki zot pa kapab saye.  Zot pa kapab saye dir mwan mon pa ti la, mwan mon ti la oubyen whatever.  Konmsi ler ou ganny apwente lo en Board  ou ganny en allowance, ou annan responsabilite.  E si ou pa dakor ek en desizyon ki Board  ou bezwen state ou responsabilite.

Alors i enportan ki nou sey rod en fason pou tenir bann Board  Members jointly, individually and severally – mon pa konnen ki mannyer i marse, responsible pou en desizyon.

Ou konnen i – nou’ vwar dernyerman poudir en dimoun i lo Board  i la ler en permisyon i ganny donnen pou konstri en lakaz dan National Park. Li menm li i la ler pou tir sa bout dan National Park pou met dan en pocket.  Konmsi si demen i afekte mwan.

E definitivman i afekte mwan akos ozordi mon pe viv dan en pei kot i annan en National Park ki parey en fromaz swis.  I annan zis pocket ladan.  I annan zis bann trou ladan e i afekte mwan. Akoz mon santi poudir valer mon pei in ganny degrade atraver bann Lotorizasyon ki par egzanp Departman Planning in donnen!  E mwan mon bezwen rezerv mon drwa pou mon anmenn sa bann zofisye Ankour. Pou lefe ki zot pa’n protez mon pei !

E mon santi a sa moman ki good faith i kapab zis vin en defans, me selman napa nanryen ki take care of bad faith.  Konmsi ki dir poudir si klerman si klerman sa bann dimoun pa’n pran zot responsabilite, zot in abdicate zot responsabilite.  I bezwen annan en fason konmsi pou dir be sa bann dimoun i bezwen annan en sanksyon lo zot.

So mon pe zis sey rode Mr Speaker e mon napa – mon apologise mon napa sa solisyon, me selman mon ti a kontan met sa devan bann Manm pou gete si zot napa en keksoz ki kapab akonpanny sa refleksyon ki mon pe fer.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari. Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker pou servi en fraz ki Onorab Ferrari i kontan servi.  Mon santi nou pe al lo en lapant en pe danzere la.  Nou’n konmans par single out Mr Joseph Francois koman – antan que CEO.  E single li out atraver son afilyasyon politik ki en drwa konstitisyonnel ki li i posede.  Nou’n bouz lo criminalize en fraksyon ki Manm Board i kapab fer.  Nou’n retourn ankor lo CEO Joseph Francois.  E la an refleksyon final nou pe konklir avek nou rezerv nou drwa pou anmenn sa bann zofisye ouswa sa serten zofisye Ankour pou bann e fraksyon ki’n kapab posibleman ganny komet par Board allegedly.  Mon konsern se ki nou Lenstitisyon i kapab ganny trouve pe pratik viktimizasyon politik lo en endividi ki pe asize la devan nou ozordi.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Loze.  Mon pa krwar non personn in ganny mansyonnen isi,  la ozordi dan sa Bills Committee Stage kot nou ete.  Me selman manm pe non plizyer lenstans ki kapab arive.  E mon krwar nou annan  respe pou tou dimoun ki la.  Sertennman mon annan respe pou CEO, Mr Francois.  Personn pa pe mansyonn dimoun par non.  Me nou  pe pran serten sityasyon.

Sa zafer kriminalite nou’n fini deal avek sa.  Nou pa pe pran sa lamannman.  So i pa ladan.  So annou move dan en lespri konstriktiv kot nou al direkteman lo Bill li menm san fer okenn latak personnel oubyen fer referans konmsi nou pe atak en dimoun personnelman. Nou pa devret pe fer sa dan Lasanble.  Nou pa devret pe fer.  Mon pa’n vwar li pe fer, sansan mon ti ava aret li.   Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon krwar, mwan mon pe vwar en pattern evolye ki danzere pou bann public servants.  I danzere pou public service.  Mon dir sa koumsa akoz, mon ti a kontan ki nou met nou lemosyon vizavi serten size lo en kote e annou regard public service ki mannyer i fonksyonnen.

Si ou regard sa clause ki relate avek good faith Onorab Georges i ava koriz mwan.  Sa mo good faith i appear dan tou Clause ki protez en public servant.  E ou menm ou Mr Chair nou’n deza annan  en gran largiman la anndan an se ki konsern – annefe ou ti propoz en lamannman pou retir sa menm clause ki nou pe vwar la an se konser Lalwa FIU.

A sa moman nou ti retir sa Lalwa FIU osi pou nou restriktir li.  Enn bann rezon akoz sa Clause i la se akoz i en gard fou pou bann public servants.  E pa zis public servants i tou bann Lazans Gouvernman.  Annou pran  par egzanp Lalwa SFRSA par egzanp.

Mon krwar son Seksyon 23 i donn li en proteksyon for acts done in good faith.  Me sa i pa anpese ki si en endividi oubyen en dimoun la, mon krwar mon rapel si mon pa tronpe case korser ki santi poudir aksyon ki’n ganny pran par SFRSA was not in good faith.  I challenge sa aksyon e something comes out of it.  So i annan en judicial review and a challenge ki kapab ganny fer for any act done in good faith.  E se pou sa rezon i annan en catch-all apre sa ki donn ou sa seksyon 91 to 96 ki raise it to a criminal threshold as well.

So mon krwar sa ki nou bezwen konsyansye about se ki mon konpran nou pe rod.  What about act done in bad faith?  En keksoz in ganny fer in bad faith?  TrueBut you have to prove the bad faith just like sa dimoun i bezwen – ou bezwen ekspekte poudir ou bezwen trust ki sa public servant i pou act in good faith.

Si nou konmans challenge sa Clause in good faith dan tou Lalwa, nou pou bezwen challenge li partou kot i egziste and I think nou pou les nou public service san en proteksyon.  Public servants i bezwen annan en proteksyon, en zofisye sanniter ki bezwen antre dan lakour en dimoun pou li fer en serten fonksyon i bezwen kapab fer.  En zofisye fire brigade ki bezwen pas dan en propriyete pou li kapab tenny en dife kot en lakaz i bezwen kapab fer li.  En zofisye lapolis ki bezwen fer serten aksyon pou protez lavi son propriyete i pou bezwen fer li.

Anba Lalwa DRDM en zofisye ki bezwen antre dan en lakour pou li par egzanp sov lavi oubyen protez lavi en lot dimoun i bezwen kapab fer li.  And all these they are protected because zot fer sa bann acts in good faith.

Me si en dimoun i anvi challenge en act in good faith you can always do itYou can always do ti judicially e ou annan en rekour legal anba Lalwa pou fer li. So mon krwar se sa ki enportan ki nou met an perspektiv ler nou pe regard sirtou sa bann clause ki protez bann public servants.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi.  Onorab Ferrari apre Onorab.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Non zis pou dir Mr Chair, mon dakor avek sa ki Onorab Pillay pe dir.  Mon  pa anvi ki bann civil servants i travay anba en lafreyer ki zot pou ganny met Ankour an brit an bann.  Selman mon pe zis anvi avans dan en direksyon ki en pe pli modern.  Akoz dan lepase si ou ti en Manm Board  en keksoz pa ale ou ganny tire ou ganny anvoye lo en lot Board, ou ganny tire zis ou fer letour. Nanryen pa arive.  Konmsi mon anvi kote ki nou pou fer pase sa mesaz pou dir ler ou pran en responsabilite ou bezwen asim sa responsabilite.  Se sa ki mon ti a kontan ki zot dir mon. Si ou pran en responsabilite lo Board  Planning mon ekspekte ou protez mon National Park !

Mon pa ekspekte ou tir en kopo la, tir en lot, tir en lot la.  Someone must be responsible.  Menm si Prezidan i vini i dir la la mon pe pran en bout la.  Menm si son garson i dir mon pe pran e bout la. Tir en kare la vann mwan. Ou bezwen – mwan mon pe sey donn en mesaz ki sa zofisye Planning i kapab dir avek sa Prezidan, non Mr Prezidan mon pa pou fer !  Mon pa pou fer akoz si mon fer i pou kapab ganny vwar konman en keksoz ki that’s been done in bad faith pou ed en dimoun pou ed ou, pou ed ou fanmir eksetera.  

So mon pe zis sey rod en fason – mon pa konnen mon.  Kekfwa nou pe avans en pe tro vit dan sa direksyon me selman mon krwar i enportan ki nou kontinyen.  Mon pa anvi delay sa travay ki nou  pe fer zis akoz sa.  Be mon anvi sa refleksyon i kontinyen pour ki endividyelman e kolektivman ler ou ganny apwente lo en Board  ou pran ou responsabilite konman en manm sa Board.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Minis ou ti le fer en kontribisyon?

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Wi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon krwar dan en kantite Lalwa nou vwar sa.  Savedir nou bezwen en pe konsistan.  Si nou pou apply li pou Planning nou bezwen apply li pou tou Lalwa kot sa clause i annan.  E mon krwar  poudir da tou Board  tou bann lenstitisyon i annan en probabilite ki dimoun pou fer keksoz lo bad faith oubyen non.  So si nou pou fer li nou bezwen fer li – akoz pli ale mon pe vwar nou pe zero in nou Planning Authority ki dimoun  parey zot pe dir i konmans met en pti pe lafreyer, menm dan staff osi, pe dir ou ki kalite desizyon pou pran whatnot !  I kapab anpes zot pran zot responsabilite e osi anpes zot pran desizyon. So si nou pou fer li annou fer li konsistan pou tou parey dan tou Lalwa i ete.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minis.  Onorab Andre. Apre Onorab Georges.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mr Chair, be sa ki Onorab Pillay in dir annefe sa Lalwa in fer proposal dan son seksyon 20(2) akoz i dir ou anba sa seksyon ki mwan mon ti pe dir annou spesifye anler.  Nou’n  dir non it is taken care of.  Sa Lalwa the proposal of the law i dir ou si i annan en sityasyon ki ant 91 to 96 is considered under Penal Code so it is taken care of.  Lalwa ki’n anmenn kot nou, pa nou ki pe dir met sa.

Pa donn sa lenpresyon ki konmsi nou, nou pe dir ki poudir en travayer pa pou kapab desarz son responsabilite, akoz lafreyer ki i pou ganny pini.  Nou ki nou pe dir parey Onorab Ferrari in dir  nou pe dir sa travayer i bezwen annan pouvwar pou li dir avek menm son Minis, ‘’Minis non akoz Lalwa pa permet nou fer sa.’’  Oubyen menm ek son CEO.  ‘’CEO non akoz Lalwa pa permet nou fer sa.’’  Sa zot, sa Lalwa ki’n anmennen anba seksyon 20(2).  So sa dimoun i konnen.

Annefe nou pe donn pouvwar travayer pou li kapab dir avek son- La mon pe dir, ekoute les mon koze Onorab Pillay.  La nou pe dir ki poudir sa travayer pe ganny empowered par Lalwa pou li kapab dir avek respe avek son bann siperyer letan in ganny direktiv pou dir non be nou pa pou kapab fer sa akoz sa, sa, sa tel rezon.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon pa anvi prolonz sa deba alor mon annan en propozisyon pou mon fer ki kekfwa i ava rezourd en pti pe sa bann keksoz.  Be mon krwar i enportan pou pran sa pti letan ki nou pe pran ozordi pou reflesir lo sa dilenm ki annan ant travay dan en fason onnet e fer keksoz byen san annan okenn lafreyer.  E travay dan en fason ki partizan oubyen ki pa onnet e sibir risk ganny en sanksyon.

Sa ki nou pe debat la ozordi fodre mon krwar nou vwar li dan en pli gran lanpler.  I pa zis apply pou bann dimoun ki pou asiz lo Board  Planning oubyen Lotorite Planning oubyen lo okenn Board  or whatever.  Me nou vwar sa souvandfwa kot civil servants annan de fwa dan – e nou vwar i ganny bokou tro proteksyon pou keksoz ki zot fer e kot zot pa devret ganny proteksyon.  Mon ava donnen legzanp.  Ler en travayer servis piblik i fer en aksidan loto zot – akoz i pe drive tro vit oubyen i – i ganny – Attorney Zeneral i anvoy en i al defann li Ankour.  Ler pou pey domaz Gouvernman ki bezwen pey domaz eksetera !

Sa se bann keksoz ki mon krwar i devret annan plis responsabilite personnel lo bann dimoun ki mal fer, pou zot pa mal fer ankor. E byen fer.  Kekfwa sa legzanp ki mon’n servi i pa en legzanp apropriye akoz i annan lasirans me nou annan en kantite lezot legzanp,  kot nou vwar kot taxpayers i bezwen peye pou defayans en zofisye servis piblik.

At the same time nou bezwen rekonnet ki travayer servis piblik i bezwen annan en serten proteksyon pou bann desizyon ki dimoun pa kontan me ki zot in fer an bon fwa dan legzersis zot fonksyon. E tanzantan pou arive,  ou pou anmenn en dokiman kot biro lanrezistreman pou fer anrezistre e zot pou dir ou non ou dokiman pa byen, mon pa pe anrezistre li.  Ou pa kapab akoz finalman ou,  ou annan rezon pou ou tay ek sa dimoun Ankour or whatever. Nou bezwen annan sa balans.

Alor avek sa antet mon pe propoz sa  lamannman swivan a clause 20.  Kot nou kas clause 20(1) e nou fer li vin 2.  Son premye bout 20(1) i ava lir comme swit.

‘The Authority shall be liable to electively for any decision made by it’’. (full stop) Ok.  Sa se responsabilite kolektiv.  E larestan 20 ki mannyer i ete la konmela, nou adopte e Minis ava dir nou si i dakor,  alternative wording ki  ganny propoze avek serten pti ladisyon. E premye adisyon i ava :-

‘‘Notwithstanding section 20 subsection (1), no civil or criminal liability shall attach to the Authority a Member or committee member,’’ eksetera ‘’in respect to any act done or omitted to be done in good faith in the performance of their duties.’’

Alor la nou ava annan en rekonesans – ki i annan en responsabilite kolektif, me osi en clause echappatoire pou bann dimoun ki fer keksoz an bonn fwa pou zot pa ganny pini.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Mon krwar bon in ariv 10.36, si mon kapab propoze Onorab Georges si ou kapab zis petet drafte li nou ava lir li.  Ler nou tournen zis apre break 11er nou ava pran sa bann lezot komanter lo la apre nou ava pran en vot lo la.  So nou ava adjourn ziska 11er.

 

(BREAK)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon bonzour tou bann Manm Onorab ankor.  Bonzour Minis e ou delegasyon.  Bonzour tou dimoun a lekout.  Nou kontiny travay lo Staz Komite lo sa Physical Planing Bill. E nou  ti pe fer bann amannman e nou ti’n ariv lo seksyon 20.  E Onorab Georges ti’n propoz en sizesyon, pou nou rezourd bann pwennvi ki ti’n ganny eksprimen.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon propozisyon pou bann dimoun ki pe swiv,  se pou kas clause 20 e dan clause 20 ki mannyer i ete gard sa 2 premye mo selman, ‘The Authority’’  e azoute ‘‘shall be liable collectively for any decision made by it’’.  Sa se premye.

E son 2enm parti ki pou vin 20(2)… ‘’notwithstanding’’ e la si nou swiv lo alternative wording,  ‘’notwithstanding subsection 1no civil or criminal liability shall attach to the Authority a Member or committee member, an officer or an employee of the Authority in respect of any act done or omitted to be done in good faith in the performance of their functions’.’  Apre 2 vin 3 eksetera.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Bon ki mon sizere nou fer dan lentere letan pou nou al pli vit.  Ki sa ler ou propoz en amannman i a ganny segonde.  Nou pa vot lo la me selman nou a vot lo la an gro kan nou pe ariv a lafen.  So zis pou nou al en pti pe pli vit.  Eski ou vwar sa sizesyon akseptab?  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon pe move Mr Chair.  Mon ti a kontan ganny gidans.  Non?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mon krwar i bon si nou pas lo sak.  Nou vot lo sak rather than just at the end.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi. Mr Chair eskiz mwan.  Mon pa’n konpran ou.   Mon ti krwar ou pe focus mwan lo sa lamannman e non pa lo sizesyon.  Ou sizesyon wi.  Mon krwar i ava ed nou pou al vit, me etandonnen ki Minis pa dakor i annan en lot lopinyon.  Annou regarde akoz mon krwar nou pou al bokou pli vit akoz la pou sa 2 ou 3 clause nou pou annan amannman apre sa pa pou annan gran amannman.  Kekfwa Minis i kapab dir nou si ki son lenpresyon lo sa propozisyon ki nou’n mete ?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mr Speaker pou pozisyon lo 20(1) (a) avek (1)(b) mon krwar sanmenm sa ki ou’n kas li an de.  I ok.  Ya.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Ki nou kapab fer se ler nou pou al lo bann amannman ki pa deza devan nou lo track changes, petet lo sa bann nou kapab segonde e vote.  Me tou bann larestan zis nou ava vwar zot e nou a vot en sel vote.  Ok Onorab Georges, mon kit ou pou diriz nou lo larestan lamannman ki devan nou.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair mon pe zis fer sa propozisyon.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Pandan ki ou pe fer sa si ou pa mind tenny ou mic Onorab Georges mon a donn mic Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair Onorab Georges in fer en lamannman ki nou kas seksyon 20 e nou pou annan 3 subsection, prezan anba 20.  Mon krwar nou bezwen pran en vot lo sa bann lamannman malgre ki Minis in dir zot,  zot napa problenm avek.  Akoz nou bezwen for the record konnen poudir Lasanble in vot in sa bann lamannman in question.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, mon dakor.  Eski lamannman Onorab Georges ki’n fek lir i ganny segonde?

 

HON PHILIP ARISSOL

Segonde.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Arissol segonde.  Eski  nou kapab pran en vot lo sa bann lamannman?  Tou bann Manm an faver?  Okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count?

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon’n rikord 14 Manm ki’n vot an faver e personn kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Savedir sa lamannman lo 20(1) 20(2) e existing (2) i vin (3) i ganny pase.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair. Nou al lo clause 20(2) ki prezan i vin 20(3). I annan en propozisyon alternative wording ki pa sanz nanryen me ki fer ki son draft i pli pozitiv ki dir:- ‘‘All members’’ eksetera, ‘’shall be deemed to be employed in the public service’’.  Eski Minis i dakor?  Si Minis i dakor nou kapab move on.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Nou move on.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon a zis rikorde ki nou’n sanze.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Minister zis pou nou fason travay sak fwa nou propoz Onorab Georges i lir sa bann lamannman,  si i annan okenn komanter ki ou ti a kontan fer zis lev e ou lanmen  pou evit ou vire,  zis lev ou lanmen mon a vwar ou.  Espérons oubyen Deputy Clerk a sinyal mwan e mon ava donn ou laparol.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

21 osi Mr Chair i annan en propozisyon alternative wording ki pa sanz nanryen.  Si nou dakor.  Nou move on.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Savedir pou 21 nou pe adopte e alternative wording.  ‘‘Members, committee members, officers or the employees of the Authority shall not divulge or disclose any information acquired by reason of their membership of the Board  or a committee or holding of office or employment except (a), (b).’’  Ok.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi Minis i dakor?  Sorry.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Minis i ok, 22(1)?  Nou al lo sub-part 1 alor.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

22 nou lo Land Use Plan e Development Plan.  La parey mon ti’n dir yer nou annan sa e nou pou vwar li plizyer fwa kot nou’n azout ‘’island or group of islands.’’  Mon krwar sa ti’n ganny aksepte yer alor nou napa gran keksoz pou dir la.  Nou’n azout dan 23, nou pe propoze azout dan 23 en nouvo sou-seksyon clause 23(2) ki pou dir ki :- ‘‘National land use plan’’ efektivman i en koleksyon bann land use plans ; ki Minis ti eksplik nou ler nou ti pe debat lo merit zeneral.  E se sa si Minis i aksepte nou bouze.  Nou ti’n ariv lo 24.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En pti moman Onorab Georges.  Onorab William ou ti le-

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker annefe mon ti’n lev mon lanmen lo 22.  Mon rapel ki dan deba lo Merit e Prensip.  An menm tan letan mon’n ekout Minis baze lo query ki mwan mon ti leve an menm tan ki t ganny ranforsi par Onorab Andre lo pwennvi legal sa mo ‘‘as soon as it’s practicable’’ ti annan serten konsern vizavi the timeline. Pou anmenn serten presizyon, akoz nou ti pe vwar li en pti pe konmsi ki i la fason in ganny ekrir, konmsi en pti pe tro larz kot finalman nou napa konmsi en ‘commencement date’ mon kapab dir.

Akoz i annan serten Lalwa dan sa Bill ki Minis li menm li i preskrir serten timeline me eski nou pou kontinyen kit ‘‘as far as it’s practicable or as soon as is practicable’’ parey i ete, san vreman donn en timeline?  Mon pa konnen si zofisye legal osi i kapab petet osi gid nou e pti pe lo la. Akoz mon santi poudir sa la fason i ete baze lo bann leksperyans ki petet ti a bon nou a kapab donn serten presizyon?  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab William. Savedir ou pe kestyonn 22(1) son premye laliny.  Eski nou annan en alternative wording pou sa?  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair ler Onorab Andre ti raise sa pwen an relasyon avek sa mo ‘’as soon as it’s practicable’’, i ti en diskisyon ki nou ti osi gannyen dan Bills Committee.  E en bann leksplikasyon ki nou ti gannyen from Planning Authority se ki ou bezwen les zot avek serten souples administrative pou zot kapab compile sa bann plan.  Akoz i pa pou straight forward ki tou sa bann plan pou kapab ganny compile dan en strict timeframe.

Par egzanp ozordi si ou pou fer en land use plan pou Perseverance, Perseverance i vin en distrik subsequent to the dissolution of sa enn Lasanble.  So eski then si par egzanp ou met 1an it would be practicable pou Perseverance? E that would apply in different context as well.

E sa pou depan lo plan devlopman ki Gouvernman pou annan a sa moman pou li kapab compile sa bann land use plan dan en fason konkret.  So that is why ki in les li en pti pe ouver.  Once nou constrain li anba Lalwa nou napa lot landrwa pou nou vire.  Minister i ganny en lobligasyon, Planning Authority pou annan en lobligasyon pou li fer sa pare.  And that obligation i fer ki there’s no leeway la.  Zot pou bezwen fer li ler i dir sa.

So mon pa konnen si nou le as en compromise met within a period of en serten kantite letan.  Be mwan mon pa en eksper dan sa domenn, so mon ti ava plito nou ekout petet bann konsey bann eksper dan sa domenn oubyen Mr Biscornet i kapab dir nou how practicable is it to put timeframe on it or allow zot serten souples pou zot kapab fer sa louvraz.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Petet kestyon pou panel. Eski zot santi i annan nesesite pou spesifye en timeframe oubyen nou kit li koumsa?  E si nou kapab met en timeframe ki fason nou  fer li e donn nou wording si zot annan en wording devan nou? Onorab Henrie avan zot reponn.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair avan ki panel i reponn kekfwa pou mon sey enfliyans zot larepons.  Akoz sa ti en size ki nou da nou caucus nou’n diskit longman lo la.  E eski restriksyon i en move- letan mon pe dir restriksyon pwen ki Onorab Pillay in dir konmsi pou donn zot en letan.  Eski i neseserman en move keksoz?

E de legzanp ki vin dan mon lespri par egzanp apre adopsyon Konstitisyon 93 ti’n met en clause pou dir 1an apre adopsyon sa Konstitisyon en nouvo SBC Act ti merit vin an fors.  Malerezman i pa’n vini solman ti deza annan en timeline.

Ouswa dan workshop ki nou fek asiste lot zour Onorab Pillay pou rapel byen Sesel in ganny 3an pou li met annord tou son bann Lezislasyon an relasyon avek Anti-money Laundering e bann keksoz koumsa.  So ki fer ki nou annan en target.  E la nou pe koz bann National Development Plan dan bann 5a ouswa Vizyon.  Konmsi nou annan en target.  So pou mwan si par egzanp sa dizon ti dir 10an, within 10 years apre commencement of this act so nou annan en – a sense of direction!  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Eski ou annan en propozisyon ki ou le mete ?

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Wi mon ti pe dir par egzanp 10an apre konmansman sa par egzanp –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So ki mannyer ou pou word li?  ‘‘The Authority may’’ – mon a les petet Onorab Georges propoz a wording pou reflekte sa swe.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Meyer fason pou fer li Mr Chair, mersi se pou mete dan 22, ‘‘The Authority shall as soon as practicable after this Act comes into operation but no later than  x years prepare a land use plan .’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mr Francois ou ti’n leve ou lanmen?

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

I ok Mr Chairman.  Zis mon ti pe fer sorti poudir en land use plan i pran konsiderasyon spesifisite sa distrik.  I annan distrik parey bann distrik lavil ki relativman straight forward.  I kapab ganny fer dan en dele leta ki ou kapab prescribe.

Tandis ki i annan distrik ki bokou pli konplike. I annan plis klasifikasyon ki ou bezwen mete. I annan proteksyon parey water catchment eksetera, i pou bezwen through a process lo li menm, akoz i en consultation activitySo e apre  i annan son legal implication an relasyon avek klasifikasyon.  So sa bann par ler i fer li difisil pou ou conclude li lo en  letan ki ou pou pre plan, akoz zot pa konnen ki ou pou rankontre when you go through  the process.

So i fer ki si ou pou dir every district donn en time frame it might be more challenging.  10an i en attempt petet ki nou kapab mete ki a kapab diriz ver completion dan sa letan, me solman i kapab li osi annan serten lobstak; si dan detrwa distrik par egzanp kot klasifikasyon i ganny challenge – bann reprezantan ki vini i obzekte, i annan bann issues ki ou bezwen resolve before you can confirm the classification officially.

Mon pa konnen si nou pou bezwen kapab met en provizyon somewhere ki permet sa kapab arive.  Par egzanp nou ti annan en timeframe, nou’n fini Praslin e Praslin was challenged on the basis of consultations and agreement by the owners.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Mr Francois.  Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker zisteman baze lo ki CEO in dir,   lefe ki sa Minister i en Minister ki’n egziste en bon pe letan, mon asire poudir i annan en bon pe groundwork ek data ki zot in anmanse physically dan zot database.  

So mwan mon rapel poudir parey Grand Anse Mahe mon rapel ti annan plizyer bann propozisyon ki’n ganny fer da lepase e mon santi poudir be sa bann rikord i bezwen ankor la.  So mon santi poudir lo kote panel zot,  zot kapab zot menm propoze akoz baze lo zot leksperyans e bann lenformasyon ki zot annan deza avek zot.  Mon pa tro krwar poudir i devret difisil akoz zot ki’n fer sa travay, zot devret kapab petet pe propoz avek nou ki meyer timeframe ki zot krwar poudir nou devret pe factor-in.  Akoz sinon parey mon dir nou pou zis met sa la akoz dan bokou landrwa dan bann Lalwa, nou pa vreman defini epi nou menm nou revini ankor nou dir be ou konnen i annan en serten loophole nou bezwen er aranze.

So ti a bon petet nou regarde ki fason petet panel menm ti kapab gid nou lo sa timeframe baze lo zot leksperyans avek lenformasyon ki zot annan.  Akoz zot finalman ki’n fer sa travay e zot pe vin anmenn devan nou.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Eski panel i annan en dele letan ki zot santi i rezonnab?  Mr Hoareau.

 

SPECIAL ADVISOR  GERARD HOAREAU

Mersi Chair mersi.  Mon pou zis koz en pe lo mon leksperyans.  Mon’n fer 6an Lotorite Planning as CEO e dan sa 6an mon pa’n kapab fer en land use plan.  So i pa akoz ou pa anvi fer.  Me son difikilte ki i annan se pou ganny dimoun pou ‘agree’ lo serten zone ki ou pou mete oubyen klasifikasyon.  E mon osi vwar ki  mon en p enkyet si i annan en timeframe ki mete avek sa akoz i pou annan lenstans kot land use plan i pran en distrik pa pou zanmen konplete parski  en dimoun pa pou dakor ek sa ki ou krwar – sa ki Lotorite i krwar  devret mete konman klasifikasyon. So i en pti pe difisil e en timeframe pou – malgre ou a vwar en direksyon en vizyon apepre dan ki lannen  but it might not happen avek sa timeframe.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Mon krwar Lasanble i bezwen desid lo si zot krwar nou devret ganny 100poursan tou dimoun pe tonm dakor lo en plan, oubyen nou annan en timeframe.  Byensir pa tou dimoun ki pou tonm dakor lo la me selman nou annan e timeframe. Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon fer sa largiman baze lo challenge ki’n deza annan lo en land use plan.  E si nou regard Lartik 26 nou Konstitisyon i donn ou drwa konman propriyeter ou later pou ou zwir ou later, me i osi fer en derogasyon.  Sa derogasyon i e derogasyon ki tre, ki tre limite li akoz si nou pran sa lapros kot ou pou fer li within a timeframe, san ki ou ganny- pa pou ganny Lagreman tou dimoun me san ki ou  ganny Lagreman dimoun ki akoz ou bezwen annan en prosesis konsiltasyon.  Ou riske vwar ou dan en sityasyon kot sa legzersis dan plas vin en legzersis ki bouze i vin en legzersis ki ganny retarde.  So that is why ki mon konpran kot Mr Hoareau pe vini kot serten souples i ganny mete dan Lalwa pou allow annan sa prosesis konsiltasyon.  Malgre ki Minister i kapab annan tou son lenformasyon.

Annou pran en legzanp Perseverance ozordi.  Perseverance ozordi wi nou’n fer li nou’n fer en convenant, nou’n fer tou bann keksoz.

Me eski si demen par egzanp Perseverance en dimoun i deside poudir be ok mon oule azout en floor avek sa landrwa.  E land use plan pa permet li.  Akoz mazinen once ki ou’n met sa peryod 10an.  Annou regard prezan bann lezot peryod prezan ki pe vini, kot i dir ou 5an, i dir ou apre 5an ki ou pou review sa land use planSo eski en dimoun pou esper 15an pou esper ou pou review en land use plan pou li kapab fer en keksoz.   Nou,  nou pe assume poudir as soon as is practicable ki sa pa pou zanmen arive.  Mon konpran ki nou pe fer. Nou pe sey met en baryer pour ki i annan en keksoz ki fors en aksyon.

So mwan mon konsernen avek sa size annan en timeframe.  Mon ti ava swete ki nou kit li parey i ete la e allow sa Gouvernman ki la, sa Minister ki la pou li kapab travay avek serten souples.  Malgre mon apresye le pwen ki en peryod 10an i en propozisyon ki’n ganny fer.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok ou, ou klerman ou anvi gard li parey i ete.  Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker lenpresyon ki mon pe gannyen la se ki subject to disagreement sa i kapab en open ended process pou en distrik.  Be mon sipoze en fason to close the loop, se senpleman konplet zot plan e submit it to a Referendum dan sa distrik!  Les zabitan distrik ava desid par en mazorite si zot aprouv sa plan wi ou non nou ganny en larepons kler net e direk there and then!  Thank you Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair mon pa pe propoz okenn amannman.   Sa ki mon fek tande la i fer mwan per.  Akoz si Lotorite Plan, Planning Authority i bezwen en land use plan, pou li kapab fer son desizyon lo ki kalite permisyon pou donnen dan bann landrwa e ki i pou pran en peryod ki bokou pli long ki 10an e kekfwa zanmen nou pou annan en land use plan dan bann landrwa be annou desir sa Lalwa and go back to the drawing Board .

Mon pa vwar ki mannyer, akoz la baz planning se annan en comprehensive land use plan,  se konnen ki si sa ki ou pou fer, dan ki landrwa isi Sesel.  Si nou napa sa e nou pa kapab fors nou lekor pou annan sa dan en peryod rezonnab –  e mwan mon ti’n vwar dan en peryod 10an i tro long, nou pa pe deservi nou Lotorite Plan – ou Lotorite Plan pa pe deservi son travay comme il faut !

E fodre nou go back to the drawing board  e nou re- envant larou.  Sa se mannyer mon pe regarde!  E pou sa rezon mon ti ava demann avek nou panel la devan, dir nou akoz si nou pa pou annan en land use plan ;  si nou pa vwar ki i posib.  Si akoz tou sa bann kontrent ki nou’n ganny dir zanmen nou pou annan en land use plan, annou tir tou sa seksyon la.  Let’s not aim for something that we never going to achieve.  Zis akoz nou kontan met sa dan en Bill.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon pa konnen si mon – fason mon mon vwar keksoz i  en pe tro senp e i pa – akoz mon pe mazin si nou pe dir 10an dizon, 2019 fini koule la li so nou pe dir apartir 2020 ziska 2030.  E si disi 2030, nou pa ankor  kapab annan en vizyon, en land use plan ki nou anvi, we might as well forget Vizyon 2033 ki nou fek vwar son lansman!  Akoz tou sa la i annan bann target.  E pour mwan letan mon pe ekoute se sa ki mon konpran.

Mon’n deza vwar mwan en drawing ki mannyer Lotorite ti anvi vwar Lari Bazar.  Ouswa Anse Royale.  E ziska ozordi 2019 lavey 2020 nou pa ankor vwar.   Prezan mon konpran akoz Lotorite konmsi i bezwen annan – bezwen kapab donn en direksyon.  Si mon a donn en legzanp Anse Royale savedir next time ki en dimoun ti pe al fer en devlopman lo son main road ou ti a dir avek li be nou annan e plan la pou en lavil be alor nou ti ava advise ou fer en building dan 3 letaz fer provizyon pou lofis, fer provizyon pou en bar.  Konmsi ou pe donn en sans direksyon! This is what mon pe vwar sa land use plan.  Me kekfwa mon refleksyon lo la i en pe tro senp e-.

Me selman mon krwar bokou dimoun deor i pe reflesir lo sa ki mwan mon pe dir.  E nou anvi ki Lotorite Plan i pran sa Lotorite ki nou pe dir i été, pou donn en direksyon!  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Bon si nou napa en propozisyon lamannman lo 22(1) annou bouze.  Akoz nou pe zis argimante e nou napa en propozisyon.  Onorab Georges in propoz enn eski i ganny segonde e nou move on.

Onorab Henrie i segonn sa propozisyon ki nou met alor en timeframe 10an.  I korek Onorab Georges?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi Mr Chair i lo Board. ‘‘The Authority shall as soon as practicable but no later than 10 years after this Act comes into operation prepare a land use plan’’ eksetera.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Eski nou kapab pran en vot lo la.  Mon propoz en vot.

Tou manm ki an faver?  Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?

Madanm Deputy Clerk.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  12 Manm in vot an faver e personn kont. Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

12 Manm an faver e personn kont.  Savedir lamannman pou 22(1) i pase.  Nou kontinyen Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

24 Mr Chair.   E la nou annan lo en dokiman ki devan nou.  En propozisyon lamannman par Onorab Ferrari ki demann repeal clause 24(3)(c).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Chairman mersi pou la parol.  Mr Chairman mon krwar ki mon konnen poudir amwen si mon ganny korize ki bann national land use plan, i pa enshrine in law.  Se bann plan ki pou gid devlopman Sesel.  So i pa en keksoz ki ou bezwen al fer en Lalwa pou ou sanz li.

Me selman malgre sa en plan  devlopman i bezwen en keksoz ki kapab ase solid pou li pa ganny sanze pou okenn rezon.  Pti pti rezon,  frivolous reason par egzanp.  E ki i bezwen annan en serten  pérennité dan son legzistans.  Alors mon vwar poudir ler i ganny updated, se a sa moman la ki kekfwa bann deba i ganny fer avek bann sitwayen oubyen avek bann lenstitisyon ki permet sa bann plan pou ganny sanze.  Me ant bann peryod ki sa bann plan i ganny updated, i ganny sanze mon krwar nou bezwen en pti pe pli ferm, pou nou anpese ki – pou nou pa permet ki en Gouvernman zis lo en lanvi frivolous, san en tro gran lenportans i anvi sanz sa plan.

Alor se pou sa ki mon pe dir ki pou mwan, in donn ase rezon pou protez sa plan la.  E sa se ‘’It shall not be changed’’ seksyon 3, ‘‘The classification of land shall not be changed except on the ground of national security, public welfare, health and safety’’.  E (b) ‘’natural causes and disasters. ‘’

Ler nou ariv dan policy and development strategies of the Government mwan mon krwar poudir sa subclause (c) i devret ganny repeal.  Ou konnen mon ava zis dir ki nou’n vwar parler – e mon retourn lo National Park akoz mon konnen mon’n reste Sans Soucis.

Mon’n reste Sans Soucis ler mon ti pe reste dan en landrwa ki pa ti dan National Park.  Apre mon’n retrouv mwan dan National Park e mon’n santi poudir sa se bann keksoz ki vo lapenn proteze.  E mon’n vwar pandan tro bokou letan ki sa bann keksoz in ganny abize.

Ou konnen ler mon dir annou tir sa mo policy.  Par egzanp si policy Gouvernman par egzanp pou dir ok sak dimoun ki vin Vis-Prezidan i pou ganny drwa pick and chose en bout later lo en later montanny.  Sa se son policy pou li fer son lakaz.  Mon pa dakor avek sa !  I kapab rod en dan lot landrwa Sorento, Mount Simpson lot, lot, lot i pa kapab rod dan National Park.  E se sa ki’n arive.    Konmsi mwan mon anvi ki ler sa landrwa i ganny designated konman en protected area i reste en protected area, unless i annan bann rezon ki mazer!  I pa kapab ganny sanze on the basis of a policy or a development strategy of the Government! I pa devret.

Si nou fer- si nou ti’n apply sa parey mon pe dir ozordi Grand Anse Mahe ti pou reste, ti pou annan en ta later lagrikiltir.  Ozordi i annan bokou mwen ki i devret annan.  Anse Royale ti pou annan en ta later lagrikiltir me ozordi  annan bokou mwens ki annan.  Nou bezwen proteze sa bann keksoz e nou pa devret cast li in stone me selman nou devret fer en fason ki ler sa bann plan i ganny sanze, zot ganny sanze for the right reasons e pa anytime.  Alors mon ti a kontan move Mr Speaker very simply ki dan clause 24(3)(c) i ganny deleted.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Eski sa propozisyon i ganny segonde?

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Onorab Pillay in segonde.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair en land use plan ler i ganny prepare i ganny prepare lo baz Polisi devlopman sa Gouvernman.  Prezan ou, ou en Gouvernman prezan ou annan bann size national security, public welfare, health and safety; ou annan natural causes and disasters ki kapab arive.  And then comes to the point of policy and the development strategy of the Government.

Onorab Ferrari in servi e legzanp, si sa Gouvernman i deside donn tou Vis-Prezidan en bout later.  Be annou servi en lot legzanp ; si sa Gouvernman i deside dan sak distrik pou bezwen annan mon pa konnen mon en sant pou bann manrmay ki napa lakaz, napa paran.  Now nou dir nou pou klasifye li anba public welfare, me this is not the definition of public welfare as it relates to a land use plan.  Sa Gouvernman i kapab deside par egzanp ki i annan bann mon pa konnen mon, utilities corridor, ki bezwen ganny pase dan en landrwa.

So pou sak rezon ekstrenm, ou annan en legzanp ki sa policy devlopman ki sa Gouvernman i annan.  Now mwan mon pa konnen si zot pa anvi vin an Gouvernman that’s up to you.  Si zot pa anvi vin dan Gouvernman e zot le ler zot vin dan Gouvernman ki zot abdicate tou zot responsabilite konman en Gouvernman,  sa i zot swa.  Akoz si mon vwar lapant ki zot pe pran avek tou Lalwa ki vini, by the time zot in ariv dan Gouvernman zot pou en Gouvernman ki pa pou kapab fer nanryen.  Akoz zot pou’n detri tou Lalwa.  Akoz dan tou Lalwa zot pou tir tou pouvwar Egzekitiv ki annan and this is what you are doing with this one!  Ok?

So mwan mon krwar poudir Mr Speaker parey nou’n dir bomaten annou pa reakte lo Mosyon.  Tou Lalwa i annan lo en baz Polisi  nou’n al dan en gran deba about policy. Sa land use plan kontrerman avek sa ki ou’n dir i vin Lalwa la, it becomes enshrine in lawIt can be changed baze lo son Lalwa ki’n kree, not willingly by everybody i deside.  E ou still annan bann gardfou ladan.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ou pozisyon i kler Onorab Pillay.  Onorab Stephen Pillay.

 

HON STEPHEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon krwar ou ti demande pou segonn sa Mosyon e mon segonn sa Mosyon.  An dizan sa amannman se ki ler pe dir son land use plan, be sa ti’n devret depi konmansman  entegre zot stratezi ek Polisi Gouvernman.  Si prezan Gouvernman ler i pe fer son land use plan, i propose ki i anvi fer Anse Royale, bazar, semen, 4 lane.  La i fer dan son Polisi dan son  direktiv.  Nou, nou pe dir ki lamannman nou fer, Minis mon propoze nou vot lo la akoz tar pe ale.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, nou pou pran en – Mosyon in ganny propoze, Mosyon in ganny segonde.  Mon’n tann en pwennvi alternativ.  Annou pran en vot lo deletion of 24(3)(c ).

Tou Manm ki an faver?  Okenn Manm ki kont?  Madanm Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count?

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  12 Manm in vot an faver e 5 in vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  12 Manm in vot an faver.  5 Manm kont.  Savedir sa propozisyon pou tir 24(3)(c) i pase.  Kontinyen Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair. Mr Chair mon ti anvi zis fer bann Manm remarke ki sa ki nou’n fek fer la en keksoz ki kekfwa nou pa ti’n remarke,  i pa ki Gouvernman i kapab – sa land use plan i kapab ganny sanze a nenport ki moman zis at every revision tou le 5an.  Alor i – sa ki nou fek fer i pa osi radikal ki kekfwa serten dimoun i kapab mazin li.

Wi nou al lo 27 Mr Chair.  Clause 27(3) i annan en sizesyon par legal advisor ki an koneksyon avek nature reserves ki demande, eski nou devret gard li konman nature reserves oubyen eski nou devret servi bann definisyon anba National Parks and  Nature Conservancy Act ki annan plizyer kategori nature reserves?  I demann sa kestyon mwan mon krwar nou’n servi sa – anfen drafter in servi in its wide sense pou anglob tou bann kategori me selman kekfwa Minis i ava kapab eklersi nou lo la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Minis, eski zot konfortab ek sa mo nature reserves? 27(2).

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Parey Onorab in eksplike e CEO osi in konfirmen ki i an global e zeneral i pou konpri osi bann buffer osi ki nou kapab proteze.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Tre byen Minis. Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Nou ale menm -.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Anfet avan nou kit 27.  27 osi i parey sa clause ki nou’n fek deal avek 22.  I pe dir ou en plan for the whole or part of Seychelles e nou’n vwar poudir ‘‘as soon as practicable.’’  Do we pou purpose consistency fer parey dan 22 donn en dele letan or pa plis ki parey nou’n fer – egzakteman parey nou’n fer dan 22.  I pran tou i melanze.  Menm sa.  Alor eski nou zis kit li ouver ‘‘as soon as practicable’’ ouswa nou azout en dele letan pa pli tar ki, avek parey nou’n fer dan 22.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon eski i annan propozisyon?  Ou pe propoz 10an?

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Non, mon ti ava mazin kekfwa en pti pe pli long si  avan nou’n dir – akoz avan ti pou distrik bann zone.  La prezan nou pe koz an zeneral.  Kekfwa 10an i kapab pa pratik – dizon 15an?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mr Francois.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mr Chairman normalman dan bann sirkonstans ordiner, en development plan i follow en land use plan li.  Once ou’n ganny en klasifikasyon, la ou fer son travay proze devlopman, ki ou anvi ankadre da sa klasifikasyon. So en timeframe i pa pou kapab avan en land use plan i vin an viger, me solman apre bann Manm i kapab apre deliber lo en timeframe apre sa ki i devret antre li.  So 15an petet ki ti a bon se donn li en timeframe after the land use plan has come into operation. Rod en dat met li avek.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi so ou pe dir savedir sa development plan i a vin tan letan apre ki sa National Land Use Plan in ganny prezante.  E rod en dele letan.  Eski ou annan en letan an partikilye ki ou krwar i rezonnab.  5an dizon apre National Land Use Plan?  Mr Francois ou annan laparol.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Vi ki son konsiltasyon i pa pou otan wide parey en land use plan, subject to resources 5an i en target ki i kapab gete. Subject to resources.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker ki mon ti a propoze se ki dan wording apre ‘‘as soon as it’s practicable but not later than the period of 5 years after the completion of land use plan under section’’ e nou al link li avek seksyon kot nou met sa peryod 10an which was section 22.  What about that?  Mon pa konnen si drafter i dakor ek sa.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges mon konnen ou pe swiv sa.  Eski ou kapab propose wording pou 27(1) baze lo sa ki’n ganny mete devan?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair mon pe propoz sa.  ‘The Authority may as soon as’’ – 27(1).  ‘‘The Authority may as soon as practicable as but no later than 5 years after the completion of the national land use plan prepare a development plan’’ eksetera.  Si nou anvi nou kapab refer li a for seksyon 23 national land use plan yes.  Nou pe koz.  Non nou pe koz land use plan  for district sa.  Nou pa pe koz national land use plan la.  Akoz national land use plan i 23.  Land use plan for districts i 22, epi la sa ki nou pe fer se development plan 27.  Lekel ki nou pe – akoz the national land use plan i en aglomerasyon tou bann district plans. Alor nou gard national land use planSo ‘’The Authority may as soon as practicable but no later than 5 years after completion of the national land use plan, prepare a development plan’’. Wi mon krwar nou pa bezwen fer referans avek okenn seksyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski Mosyon i ganny segonde? Onorab Ferrari ou segonde?

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Yes.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski nou kapab pran en vot.

Tou Manm ki an faver?

Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Madanm Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  17 Manm in vot an faver e personn kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

17 Manm an faver e personn kont.  Savedir 27(1) i ganny amande.  Kontinyen Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mr Chair baze lo amannman ki nou’n fer lo 22 mon panse poudir pou nou pa oubliye mon krwar poudir lartik 23 osi menm amannman ki’n ganny fer lo 22 bezwen aplik pou Lartik 23.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ou ti oule met en timeframe lo la?

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Zis pou donn consistency akoz 22 avek 23 i apepre nou pe koz menm zafer.  So for consistency mon mazinen nou devret fer menm amannman.  Mon reste ganny gide par Chairman Bills Committee.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Vi ki pou 22 nou’n donn 10an so mon mazinen i a vin en peryod apre ki sa district oubyen land, oubyen zone, – oubyen island a group of islands, i ganny prepare ki 10an nou donn en dele letan.  Eski 5an ti ava pratik?  Petet mon a demann panel?   Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Yes Mr Chair mon demann mwan si actually nou bezwen donn en dele akoz nou’n azout 23(2) annou pa bliye ki dir ki national land use plan i zis en aglomerasyon tou bann district plans,  tou bann land use plan.  Alor ipso facto, ipso facto konman ou fini avek enn i pou vin part of the national plan.  Donk i pou otomatik e mon krwar eskiz mwan nou kapab dir ‘‘The Authority shall after the land use plans for all districts come into operation prepare a national’’, san met ‘‘as soon as practicable’’ pou li vin otomatik.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon konpran lozik.  Eski nou dakor avek sa?  Savedir nou pou fer amannman dan 23 kot nou pou tir ‘‘as soon as practicable.’’

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair mon pa konnen.  Eski i prudent pou nou servi sa mo ‘‘comes into operation or have been prepared’’?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Ki ti son propozisyon?  Ki ti son propozisyon Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

I pe demann ou si ou krwar nou devret gard sa mo ‘‘comes into operation’ oubyen ‘is prepared’’.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Or completion– ‘’shall after completion of the land use plan.’’   Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Georges ed nou avek the final wording pou 23(1).  Ki nou kapab pran en vot lo la.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Yes Mr Chair, 23(1).  ‘‘The Authority shall after completion of the land use plan for all districts, zone, island, group of islands, prepare a national land use plan’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Eski Mosyon i ganny segonde?  Onorab Arissol ou segonde.  Eski nou kapab ganny en vot pou 23(1) parey in ganny amande.  Tou bann ki an faver? Okenn Manm ki kont?

Madanm Deputy Clerk?

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  19 Manm in vot an faver e personn kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Madanm Deputy Clerk.  Savedir nou’n amann 23(1).  19 Manm an faver.  Personn kont. Savedir sa lamannman in pase.  Nou retourn lo 27 oubyen 28.   Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair. In fact mon ti’n dir taler, nou pou al en pe pli vit.  Annefe nou napa nanryen ziska 33 alor nou kapab al 33(1)(b)(1).  33(1)(b)(1).        Subdivision of land i en pwen ki mon ti’n fer yer dan en lot konteks.  Eski nou krwar i neseser pou defini ‘‘subdivision of land for commercial, residential, industrial or agricultural purposes’’.  Oubyen zis reste avek ‘‘subdivision of land’’ tou kourt ki anglob tou lezot e ki kekfwa i ava les posibilite pou ‘subdivision of land’ pou bann lezot keksoz ki nou pa’n prevwar la.

Mon propozisyon. Ou’n demann nou fer propozisyon direk se pou delete tou bann mo apre ‘land’ e gard zis, ‘‘include subdivision of land’’.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Savedir kot i vin which is or is intended eksetera nou tire.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Tir tousala.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Sa se mon propozisyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Sa se deza lo track version so si nou ok petet ou ti a rod pwennvi panels si zot ok avek sa nou move on.  Ok. Savedir annou kontinyen.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  E dan sanmenm sa sou seksyon (b) nou al 7.  Lo zot track version zot ava vwar nou pe propoz azout konman en keksoz devlopman enn bann lenstans devlopman se konstriksyon retaining wall ek boundary wall ki  pa ti dan lalis avan e ki mon krwar nou’n aksepte dan en lot konteks yer dan en definisyon. E si nou dakor avek sa nou al lo 33(4).

Guidelines, e ankor enn fwa nou ti tous lo la dan deba lo merit e mon pe highlight sa la akoz sa deba lo policies.  Akoz la nou annan guidelines la prezan.

Sa souseksyon i dir ki material change dan en batiman oubyen dan en later ki dan lansent en lakaz i ava ganny subject to guidelines develop by the Ministry.  E mon krwar ki Minis ti’n dir nou ki dan konteks planning zot annan en seri guidelines lo bann keksoz spesifik dan seksyon planning.  Zot ava annan guidelines lo elektrisite.  Zot ava annan guidelines lo fire.  Zot ava annan guidelines lo plizyer keksoz.  Si mon konpran tre byen eski sa i le ka?  E si sa i leka, eski nou happy pou gard guidelines avek risk ki sa i kapab poze demen si i annan en kontestasyon?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Panel, Minis.  Zot annan okenn komanter?  Yes Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker nou annan guidelines ki kapab mete konman regilasyon osi.  Me selman pou purpose la ler mon pe get 4 i pe dir ‘’material change of use’’So it’s mostly change of use to a building or en later ki nou pe koz lo la.  So kekfwa sa mo ‘’planning permission’’ pou pli relevan for a change of use rather than a guidelines li menm. Akoz guidelines wi nou pou annan me nou pou fer li konman regilasyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minis.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Eski Minis pe dir nou ki dapre zot se ki nou pe dir ‘’shall be subject to permission rather than’’ dir ‘’subject to guidelines develop by the Authority’’?  Eski zot ti a prefere dir sa?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi mon krwar se sa ki Minis pe dir.  Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Wi Mr Speaker.  Akoz guidelines pou antre li me selman i pou antre apre.  Me sa ki enportan se ou annan en permission from Planning for change of use.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So change of use esansyelman ou pe rod permisyon Planning?

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Yes.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Propozisyon amannman alor Mr Speaker se ki sa dernyen fraz i ava lir ‘‘shall be subject to planning permission by the Authority’’Ok.  Si sa, si nou dakor nou proceed.  Mersi.

Mr Chair i annan de pti lamannman dan 36 kot nou pe propoze sanz applicant ki en applicant for Planning permission e fer li vin ‘‘developer’’ akoz nou’n servi sa mo ‘’developer’’ partou e sa ti’n ganny aksepte dan Bills Committee.  In ariv lo apre en pti lamannman dan ‘g’, in ariv lo ‘h’.  ‘h’ i en challenge drafting.  Nou pa’n anvi sanze akoz nou ti anvi konn egzakteman ki nou pe rode ladan.  ‘’Providing that planning permission once granted is valid for 5 years’’ from approval e larestan i en pti pe vag si panel i kapab gid nou lo la nou a kapab – oubyen si Mr Pool i kapab propose en alternate drafting.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Petet avan Mr Pool i reponn zis petet sey pran an konsiderasyon.  Eski zot pe dir la ki mon ganny en planning permission ki valid pou 5an.  Mon apply for en renewal prezan mon ganny 3an.  Be selman sa approval pou sa 3an i pou ganny determinen si i annan en valid land use plan in force?  Se sa ki zot pe sey dir?  E petet then nou bezwen nou bezwen restruct the whole clause.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Les mon a les Mr Francois reponn po klarifye.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mr Chairman sa provizyon in met la petet son wording i en pe ambiguous.  Me in met la pou permet en – akoz land use plan avek aprouvasyon en plan i mars avek kanmarad.  So si ou’n aprouv en plan within letan validite en land use plan napa problenm.

Si ou annan en plan ki apre ou land use plan i ganny revize e i sanze klasifikasyon dan land use plan i sanze, then ou pou annan en problenm avek sa plan.  Alor ou ti pe rod en fason pou marye laprouvasyon land use plan e mars li avek dirasyon – sorry nou ti pe rod en aplikasyon aprouvasyon pou en aplikasyon e mars li an dirasyon avek dirasyon en land use plan.

So whichever which is longer can go for the renewal.  So nou ti pe rod en fason ki mannyer kapab aprouv en plan e apre allow en renewal ki within laliny ou validity en land use plan, me pa desot li.  That was the idea.  But the wording might have not gone too well.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Mr Francois. Mon pa konnen si sa i ed  Onorab Georges pou mye kapab konpran lentansyon pou kapab ganny bann mo.  So mon mazinen i parey ou’n donn laprouvasyon pou en proze dan en landrwa baze lo land use plan. Me plitar land use plan i sanze e alor Planning i tournen i vini i dir ek li be i annan serten modifikasyon ki ou bezwen fer, akoz tel kalite devlopman ki nou pe mazinen pou sa rezyon menm sa distrik dan lakel ou ete.  E i kapab enpoz serten kondisyon.  Si sa se lentansyon ou le drafte li koumsa ?  Byensir i kree en problenm parski sa dimoun in envestir in plan dapre en serten konesans e sertitid.  Be ler ou pe sanz sa i kapab koz – me sa se en pwen pou deba.  Me si mon’n konpran li koumsa,  eski ou’n konpran li koumsa Onorab Georges?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon konpran li koumsa Mr Chair.  Mon pe struggle avek en draft apropriye.  Anfen mon’n sey sa.  Providing the planning permission once granted is valid for 5 years.  Mon krwar nou’n dakor avek sa.  Sa ki mon pa konpran se sa bout swivan.  ‘‘Or upon renewal during a period of 3 years.’’ Setadir i valid pou 5an apre ou kapab demann en renewal pou 3an ankor?  Eski se sa ki lentansyon oubyen non?  Akoz mon pa konpran sa renewal for 3 years from approval.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Si mon konpran en pti pe lafason Gouvernman pe panse petet zot pe mazinen zot in dir ek sa dimoun be ok ale.  Me apre 5an land use plan in sanze prezan zot enpoz en lot kondisyon i dir ek zot i difisil.  Be zot dir li be ok be mon a renew li ankor 3an apre nou a gete.  Eski se sa ki – mon a demann Mr Fancois pou reponn.  Mon pe konpran li koumsa.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Petet sa term 3an petet nou kapab re get li.  Nide deryer sa se ki ou annan en plan ki ganny aprouve e i valid pou 5an.  Now ki arive apre 5an.  Fer krwar ou pa ankor konstri apre 5an me land use plan i ankor valid.  Menm kategori, menm klasifikasyon menm keksoz.  So do we allow a renewal pou until the validity of the land use plan, oubyen nou fer nouvo aplikasyon menm si kategori nanryen pa’n sanze.  That was what we wanted to  a address. So petet nou a les sa avek bann –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair mon krwar nou pou annan en problenm akoz problenm ki nou pou annan se ki nou pe dir ki sa land use plan is already subject to renewal after 5 years?  So ou fini kree en problenm.  Sa ki pe al arive la, se ki ou pe donn mwan laprouvasyon pou mon plan gro solman an tou 8an.  Me si ou pe review en land use plan apre 5an savedir sa 3an in fini tonbe. So mon krwar si ou le link li tou le de, se ki ou bezwen dir ‘’approval for development shall be for a period within which the land use plan is still valid.’’  It will have to be that way ou konpran?  Prezan ou problenm ki ou pou kree se ki si sa land use plan i valid zis pou 2an at the time ki mon fer mon land use plan.  That’s where ou pou pri la.

So unless ou dir mwan mon subject pou sanze.  Me ler i pou sanze pou annan en cost pou mon al incur prezan.  Ou konpran mwan ?   Mon pou incur en cost prezan pou refer mon plan pou match sa nouvo land use plan si i annan review ladan.  So inexplicably nou pou annan problenm la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Petet zis pou ed nou si Mr Francois i kapab gid nou anba ozordi Town and Country Planning Act, eski sa bann provizyon i deza egziste?  Mr Francois.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANCOIS

Mr Chairman currently vi ki land use plan pa en konponan ki ganny kouver anba TCPA,  i al direkteman lo validite en aplikasyon 5an.  Me within ou 5an ou renew li apre 2enm lannen e ou kapab fer en lot renewal apre en 3enm lannen lo li. Me son total pa exceed 5an akoz 5an i the expiry date.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Eski sa propozisyon i fer sans Mr Chair?  ‘‘Providing the planning permission once granted is valid for 5 years, or upon renewal for a period which shall be determined by the period during which a valid land use plan or development plan is in force’’. Eski sa i fer sans?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Pou mwan i fer sans parski pran kont lefe ki ou’n deza konmans en peryod dan sa pa pou-

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Vwala ou renewal i ava depan lo peryod validite en land use plan.  Ok?  Mon fer sa propozisyon amannman.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Nou kapab kontinyen Onorab Georges?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

In ariv 37 Mr Speaker.  La ti annan en propozisyon  mo ‘’national interest’’.  Nou annan en definisyon mo ‘‘national interest’’ la dan 37 ki apply zis seksyon 37, clause 37.  E nou ti pe demande si no devret allign sa definisyon ‘‘national interest’’ avek sa ki dan seksyon 24.  Pardon.  Wi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

24 ki nou’n fek amande.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

24(3). ‘’National security, public welfare, health ‘’eksetera.  ‘’National causes and disasters.’’  Oubyen akoz i annan en discrepancy ant sa de.   Zot preske parey, me zot pa idantik.  E kestyon ki nou ti pe demande, se eski i annan en rezon akoz ‘‘national interest’’ la.  I annan serten – i anglob serten keksoz ki dan 24 e i annan lezot an plis.  Oubyen eski se zis en drafting issue?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ou pe poz sa kestyon avek panel plito.  Eski i annan okenn lo panel ki oule reponn.  Mr Francois petet.  Onorab Ferrari antretan.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Wi Mr Speaker mersi.  Mon annan en propozisyon amannman lo la.  Mon krwar ki vi ki nou’n pas en pe letan lo definisyon ‘‘national interest’’ dan 24.  Well i pa en – i donn bann paramet dan lekel sa bann plan i kapab ganny sanze. Nou devret kapab servi menm wording e dan sa ka i ava lir ‘‘for the purpose of this section national interest means, national security, public welfare, health and safety, national causes and disasters’’So that would give a consistency.

E si sa akoz mwan mon’n anvi retir en sa ki mon  ti santi ti permet en pe tro bokou fleksibilite, on vwar li dan menm keksoz.  Par egzanp moralite.  Moralite i e term ki tre subjective.  E mon vreman mon pa vwar son relevans dan 37(1).  Alor mon ava kindly, mon a humbly suggest ki nou al lo menm ki nou al lo menm baz ki 24.

E si sa i  ganny fer mwan bokou bann  lezot amannman ki mon ti pe propoze anba 37(3) i kapab tonbe, akoz sa i ava’n donn mwan konfor poudir nou annan en pe konsistans e i pa pou bann rezon frivolous, ki pou ganny evoke.  E mon ava drop sa bann lezot amannman eksepte 6 ki mon ava vin lo la apre.  Mersi. 36(6).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Eski ou dakor avek –

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi Mr Chair.  Pou nou pa perdi letan.  Tou dimoun i dakor pou zis re allign 37(1) avek 24(3).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Si nou dakor avek sa nou – wi mon a kapab – annefe mon ti pe avoid fer li akoz i pou pran en pe letan.  Me si zot ensiste-

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari ti’n deza lir ‘‘for the purpose of this section national interest’’.  Ou ti dir ‘’refers to national security, public welfare, health and safety, natural causes and disasters?’’

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi … means ‘’the public interest … promote the public welfare, health, safety, natural causes and disasters.’’  Se sa?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi i pe marye li avek 24(3).

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Dan sa ka si ou permet mwan wi Mr Chair  nou kapab fer li vitman ?

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Sorry Onorab Georges. Akoz i annan de mon pa konnen – me you can’t promote natural causes and disasters and natural security.  You can promote public welfare, health and safety yes.  So there has to be 2 classifications.  To promote sa, sa, sa and –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok vi ki sa in run en pti drafting issue la.  Mon pa krwar nou annan okenn kontansyon an term son size li menm.  Ki mon sizere nou adjourn pou le moman.  Me nou a repran 2er apre midi avek kontinyasyon bann lamannman.  Espérons nou al e pti pe pli vit ki nou’n ale depi bomaten.  So nou ava adjourn ziska 2er apre midi.

 

(BREAK)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon bonn apre midi tou bann Manm Onorab.  Bonn apre midi tou dimoun ki pe swiv Lasanble Nasyonal pou ozordi Merkredi le 7 Out 2019.  Nou ankor dan Staz Komite lo Physical Planning Bill, e mon ti a kontan demann Parliamentary Reporter pou envit Minis pou kontiny sa sesyon Komite avek nou ek son delegasyon byensir.

Onorab Georges si petet ou kapab remind nou kot nou ete ou ti pe drafte.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Avek plezir Mr Chair, nou’n ariv clause 37 ki anler lo Board.  E parey ou ti demann mon fer, mon annan en proze lamannman pou sizer avek Lasanble.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi.  E mon espere vi ki nou’n fer apepre lanmwatye sa Bill dan bomaten esperons ki nou kapab fer lot lanmwatye sa Bill apre midi.  I zis konman en sizesyon ki mon kapab donn bann Manm si zot fer bann sizesyon lamannman, oubyen zot anvi propoz amannman, propoz osi son text byensir kekfwa i pa pou antyerman dan zot kapasite konman bann dimoun ki pa neseserman Avoka.  Me selman annan en text ki zot in prepare ki bann nou bann dimoun legal i kapab vitman met ansanm pou nou pa persi letan.

Bonn apre midi Minis e ou delegasyon, ki enkli Mr Francois, Chief Executive Officer, Mr Terry Biscornet Deputy CEO, Mr Gerald Hoareau Special Advisor, Mr Victor Pool Legal Draftsperson, byenveni parmi nou.

Minis nou’n ariv lo seksyon 37 e mon ava envit Onorab Georges pou prezant lamannman.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bonn apre Midi ek ou delegasyon.  Bonn apre midi tou bann Manm Onorab, bann dimoun ki e ekout nou dan lakour.

Mr Chair mon zis avan mon nou ti break pou dezennen ou ti demann mon fer en propozisyon lamannman swit par en lentervansyon Onorab Ferrari, e sa se ‘national interest’ ki nou anvi re lye li avek definisyon oubyen avek konteni seksyon 24 (3).  E mon propozisyon i sa enn swivan.

Nou’n aboli – anfen nou’n delete tou sa ki anler lo Board i vin apre benefit, setadir ‘’public defence, safety, order morality or health.’’  E nou’n ranplas zot par sa 2 konsep ki dan clause 24 (3).

E alor prezan 37 (1) i lir comme swivan.  ‘’For the purpose of this section national interest means the public interest in relation to development of land to promote national security, public welfare health and safety and to address national causes and disaster.’’ 

        E si sa i ganny retenir nou pou bezwen fer en lamannman konsekan avek 37 (2) ki lo Board, akoz la dan 37(2) nou koz lo national interest me nou repran security, health, safety akoz zot, zot pa ti dan definisyon avan, me zot ti dan 24.

Alor letan donnen nou’n fini defini national interest anler,  nou pa bezwen repet sa bann mo la.  E nou dir donk dan 37 (2) involves or affects national interest, be referred to the Minister for determination’’ – san sa bann mo ‘national, security, health and safety or    national disaster.’ 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok sa i kler.  Eski i annan okenn komanter?   Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi, mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon ti le mon ti le  fer en pledwari regarding sa mo morality, dan lesans ki si ou annan en sityasyon demen kot      God forbid nou vin en sosyete pli ouver.  E nou konmans koz lo bann mon pa konnen mon swa loka swa lo bann keksoz koumsa – eski – eski definisyon ki nou annan la i ase pou enkorpor li akoz mon krwar morality i al en pti pe avek fabrik sosyal sosyete.

Eski pou konfortab konman en Lasanble ki nou’n i dantir li nou’n retenir loportinite pou ki nou annan en desizyon ki kapab ganny fer lo sa baz?  This is what I’m concern with. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me si mon korek ek sa ki Onorab Georges in propoze, se ki sa mo morality pou sorti tou fason, anba ou lamannman? in sorti konpletman.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Se sa ki  mon pe konsernen avek Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon ti le repran e siport largiman ki Onorab Pillay pe anmennen.  Boner mon ti en pe konsernen letan Onorab Ferrari ti lev sa Kestyon sa mo ‘moralite’ antan ki i en pti pe frivole kot i ete.

Be si en kilt satanik demen i demann permisyon pou li konstri en tanp o sant en kominote kretyen Sesel.  Ki mannyer Planning Authority pou obzekte sa li?  Sa i zis en kestyon.  Si napa en baz moral, napa en largiman moral pou obzekte bann sataniste annan en tanp dan en pei kretyen.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Zis pou en laliny Mr Speaker.  Ler ou vwar en Gouvernman oubyen en politisyen i konmans anvi reglemant moralite la, mon advise se konmans taye.   Ok?  Akoz nou pa reglimante moralite.  Nou fer bann Lalwa ki dan lentere lasante, lanvironnman, bon vwazinaz, nou pa reglimante moralite!  Moralite  i dan lasosyete  annantye e i annan e pa se Gouvernman ki enforce li.

So mwan mon krwar poudir  annou pa al lo sa laliny.  Taler nou pou le Gouvernman pou le fer regleman spirityalite lot, lot, annou pa ale dan sa laliny.  It doesn’t work ! It doesn’t work so annou fer bann keksoz ki marse.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi Onorab Ferrari.   Avan nou al mon demann sa Mosyon pou ganny segonde in vote eski panel i annan okenn pwennvi for lo sa propozisyon Onorab Georges?  Lo 37 (1) ek 37(2).

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mon en pti pe konsernen mon osi  akoz menm si nou pa pe regle moralite me selman regle devlopman kI relye avek en moralite.  Nou, nou pe regle devlopman.  E mon krwar mon osi konman en manman oubyen konman en madanm, mon en ti pe konsernen avek sa si ou pou tir sa moralite ladan.  I pa vedir ki mon lespri i ouver nou tou nou konnen ki kapab arive.  E osi mon pa krwar ki mon pou kontan en zour annan en – zot dir sa loka konman en  brothel  konmsi dan en lavil Victoria !  Nou bezwen regilariz sa otherwise nou bezwen met en Lalwa somewhere ki pou kapab kekfwa anpes sa arive.  Mon krwar moralite from parti nou sosyete se sa ki mon pe sey fer konpran.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minister.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Ou konnen 40an pase, i moralite ti kapot! Divors! Tou sa bann keksoz. – Pilil kontrasepsyon, sete sa moralite!  Ok?  E nou’n evolye, mon krwar i en deba ki nou’n ariv dan en pozisyon kot en Gouvernman pa regle ki mannyer dimoun i relate lo son lavi prive.  Sa se bann keksoz ki en sosyete i fer annan-tye mwan mon pa krwar anyway mon pa anvi mon krwar i en deba ki fitil, ki retrograd ki anmenn nou dan bann dark ages, so si zot anvi al laba zot ava al zot menm, mon pa krwar nou pe ale laba.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, vi ki nou’n ganny pwennvi Onorab Georges.  Mon ti le bouze nou a pran en vot.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair mon ti anvi zis demann Lasanble pou cool down.     sa ki nou pe fer la nou pa pe dir ki nou pa pe donn Planning permisyon pou li enterfer dan moralite non.

Si zot lir seksyon 37 sel keksoz dan seksyon 37 i fer se dir ki dan sa bann sirkonstans, Minis i kapab donn en gidans avek Lotorite  pou pran ler zot fer zot desizyon, se tou.

E moralite, i pa en kestyon ki ganny trete zis o nivo        Planning.  E i pa en kestyon ki zis annan pou fer avek en i en size vas e en size kontrovers akoz pou serten dimoun.  En lot larelizyon i en problenm moralite pou swet en dimoun, gambling i en problenm dan moralite, pou serten dimoun annan lavant lalkol i en kestyon moralite.

E mon per, mon per i pa ditou i pa ditou akoz mon pe say avek Onorab Ferrari lo la, me mon per ki nou antre dan en polemik ki nou pa bezwen fer !  Akoz sel keksoz ki 37 pe fer i dir ki dan serten ka ki ganny define konman’ lentere nasyonal’, si nou regard 37 (2) Minis i kapab donn direksyon avek Lotorite pou li pran konsiderasyon ler i pe donn permisyon me ler i pe refiz permisyon, se tou.

Moralite pou ganny gide par lezot keksoz, Licensing, bann keksoz koumsa, selon mwan.  E non pa lo Physical Planning. Eski en loka i devret annan zis ground plus one oubyen ground plus two and attic eksetera?   Se sa ki nou pe koz lo la li Physical Planning.  Pa eski ou pou annan en loka or not?  Sa se mannyer mwan mon vwar li Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Point Of Order Onorab.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker, Order 56 mon oule fer en klarifikasyon very quickly.  Se ki le rezon nou’n lev sa pwen avek zot, akoz se zot ki pe anmenn sa lamannman, se ki pou zot konsider pou dir zot whoever forms part of a Government i bezwen legislate from the Government.  I bezwen regularize activities.  E mon konpran nou dir ki nou pou les tou dimoun decide on the morality.  Me ekoute nou dan en sosyete ki annan Lalwa ki bezwen annan Lalwa annan serten gid.

Now sa Lalwa pa pe prevwar pou li dir ou i pe reglemant moralite. I pe prevwar pou dir li i kapab fer desizyon lo sa bann plan devlopman.  Akoz get byen lo ki sa i baze.  Lo sa bann pwen devlopman, an se ki relasyon avek moralite.  Now zot, zot in dir zot le tir sa mo’ moralite’.  Sa ki mon oule demann zot.  Se ki  mon’n raise en kestyon, fer en question as to ki pou arive dan sirkonstans ou annan en dimoun pe challenge Lotorite, i  dir ou mon oule fer mon sa, malgre Licensing pa permet li fer, me i pe konmans fer sa aktivite legalman e oule Planning par egzanp kas sa zafer ki in fer.  Lo ki grounds i pou vini?  Si ou’n defini ‘national interest  koman napa moralite ladan or  things like that. 

Mon kestyon ki mon ti pe demande, avek bann dimoun ki la anndan avek panel, se eski national interest dan sa konteks i ganny define enough pou enkonpor – akoz pa bliye in annan demann, dan lezot lenstans pou detrir par egzanp bann pti langar ki bann zenn i kontan vin anba la, pou swa pike ouswa fer bann keksoz koumsa.  I annan bann distrik kot sa in arive.  Annou pa’n ariv pou krwar pou dir this is only about Gouvernman dizour and what happened 40 years 40an pase!  Nou pe legislate pou pei going forward. 

Se sa ki mon krwar nou bezwen pran konsyans lo la.  So eski ler nou pe retir sa provizyon dan Lalwa, nou annan opsyon pou nou kapab fer serten restriksyon vizavi serten devlopman, ki nou santi i kapab al dan en tandans ki moral.  Se tou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, kler ou propozisyon ou klarifikasyon i  kler.  Mon krwar propozisyon i ganny fer pou annan en lamannman.  Eski sa propozisyon i ganny segonde?  Onorab Georges 37 (1) avek 37 (2).  Onorab Ferrari zis segonde?  Ok Mosyon in ganny segonde.  Tou bann Manm ki an faver lamannman anver 37 (1) ek 37 (2) silvouple lev zot lanmen.  Okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair, mon’n rikord 12 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 6 ki’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, 12 Manm ki’n vot an faver, 6 ki’n vot kont.  Savedir sa lamannman 37 (1) ek 37 (2) i pase.  Onorab Georges ou a gid nou.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Ti annan en propozisyon pou 37 (3) ek 37 (4) sorti kot Onorab Ferrari, me i paret ki i pa pe proceed avek sa de, 37 (6) osi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Avek ou permisyon Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan met devan Lasanble ki, apre sa konsansis konsiltasyon ki Lotorite i fer avek Minis e i refer sa kestyon National Interest avek Minis. I mon lopinyon ki Minis pa devret lo ki menm e ganny demande pou li pran sa desizyon, swa pou donnen swa pou refiz permisyon.  Mon krwar i en unfair pou nou met sa lo en dimoun.  E mon krwar ki Minis i devret i devret konsider sa referral i devret anba 4 ek 5, konsilte avek bann dimoun avek bann spesyalis ki kapab gid li lo dan en direksyon oubyen en lot, me mon krwar ki ler sa prosesis in konplete Minis i devret refer back the matter with his or her recommendations to the Authority for a final determination.  At the end of the day it could be that body pou fer sa determination.

Mon krwar ki 6 e subsequently dan mon propozisyon 7 ava tonbe akoz parey mon’n eksplike mon krwar ki the sa ki nou annan pou le moman ‘’where the Minister may decide on his or her own as to the grant or refusal of the permission’’ i evident fair pou nou demann sa lo Minis.

So ‘’refer back with’’ e mon lamannman i ava ‘’the Minister may after considering the records, if any,(comma) the report of findings and recommendations, refer the matter with his or her own recommendation to the Authority for a final determination.’’  And that could been delete the words ‘decide as to the grant or refuse or refusal of the permission.’ 

        So sa i mon propozisyon Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Savedir i kler sa ki ou pe propoze ; savedir ou pe fer sa Minis i a fer son rekomandasyon, avek Lotorite pou en desizyon final.   Se sa ki ou pe sizere ?  Eski i annan okenn ki pare pou segonn sa Mosyon tout dabor?  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON STEPHEN PILLAY

Mosyon i ganny segonde.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Pillay.  Okenn pwennvi Onorab Pillay.  Sebastien Pillay safwasi.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair the whole sa section i relate to 37 (1).  Everything comes back to 37(1).  Ou annan ‘national interest,’ ou annan ‘public welfare’, ou annan ‘benefit for public defence safety’, apre baze lo lamannman ki zot in fer.

So ou’n deza fini tir sa ki ou’n apel sa probabilite ki en frivolous decision i ganny fer anba moralite tir sa.

Me la ou vini ou servi en lot marto ankor e ou tap ankor ou tir okenn pouvwar administratif ki Gouvernman i annan.

Me non sa ki ou pe fer akoz ou pe dan sa konteks akoz si ou regard byen sa striktir sa clause ki ou pe deal avek la,  striktir sa clause i relate to subclause  (1) i sa bann desizyon ki relate avek bann desizyon ki annan pou fer en lentere Nasyonal.  E ou le ki apre ki’n pas prosedir sipoze ki sa Gouvernman ki konn sa lentere Nasyonal, ou le ki sa i go back to sa Lotorite pou fer desizyon e li pa fer desizyon li tousel.

 

(Off-Mic)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Wi mon’n tann en n koleg dir nou pa trust zot, me this is not about trusting zot or trusting anybody.  This is about the Law.

 

(Interruption)

 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non, fer ou largiman fer ou largiman kler.

 

(Interruption)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mon largiman se ki mon pe vwar zot pe mon pe vwar zot pe bliye pou dir en Gouvernman oubyen en administrasyon pa fonksyonn dan en fason dan en fason otomatik! Mon pa konnen ki zot ki kategori sistenm Gouvernman zot oule, in the first place !  

 

(Interruption)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Me ou pou ganny enn ki pou napa pouvwar tou!

 

(Off-Mic)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Me lekel ki pou annan pouvwar?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok ou pwen i kler.  Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, nou pe koz lentere Nasyonal avek en Gouvernman ki’n ganny elekte nasyonalman.  Li sa Gouvernman ki’n ganny elekte nasyonalman, nou retir son abilite e pouvwar ladministratif  pou weigh-in  lo lentere Nasyonal.  I ganny eliminen dan sa ranze.

Dan plas nou pran sa nou met dan lanmen en Board ki li in ganny elekte par en Lotorite politik, ki in esansyelman en Board politik, ki li sa Board politik i apwent en CEO politik, e la nou end up napa balans prezan.

Bon mon konpran Mr Speaker.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Aglae.

 

HON EGBERT AGLAE

Mr Speaker, mwan mon pe sey en konpran la ; akoz sa (6) avek sa 37 (6) ki nou refer li avek 37 (1) ek (2) nou pe fer vir an ron.

Ler pou annan en problenm konsernen national interest i pou al devan Lotorite ok ?  i pou al devan Lotorite, e Lotorite pou en rekomandasyon e la 36 (6) i dir ou vin kot Minis.  Ok?  E Minis dapre la 2(6) pou pran en desizyon.

Savedir si ou pe dir Minis pa kapab pran desizyon, i bezwen retourn k ot Lotorite ki li menm li in fer rekomandasyon, be lekel ki pou annan final decision ladan la?  Sa ki mon anvi kontan.   Lekel ki pou annan final decision ?

 

(Off-Mic)

CAA a fer!

 

HON EGBERT AGLAE

Eski sa Board zot pou vote, prezan si ariv en tie!  Konmsi ki mannyer nou pou fini fer en desizyon final, mon le konpran la.  Akoz nou pe vir an ron!

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon ti a kontan eksplik Onorab Aglae. Onorab Aglae ler i annan en size ki annan pou fer avek lentere Nasyonal e nou’n determinen nou’n tonm dakor lo definisyon lentere Nasyonal, ok? 

Minis i donn direksyon Planning Authority pou li pou li ler i pe fer son deliberasyon, i donn li en kominikasyon konmkwa i annan lentere nasyonal ki la.

E la Minis prezan i pran tou son pouvwar anba (3) anba (4) anba (5) i apwent bann dimoun i konsilte bann dimoun ok?  E i annan en desizyon pou li pran – ok? 

Mwan sel keksoz ki mon pe dir, se ki mon pa krwar mon krwar ki Minis i annan tou son pouvwar konsiltasyon, tou son  pouvwar analiz.  Me selman at the end of the day, ler pou pran desizyon Minis i fer en rekomandasyon avek Board Planning Authority, la i l a ki nou – ki mwan Minis reprezantan Gouvernman mon pe rekomann avek zot.  E desizyon i ganny pran par Planning Authority 

        Mwan mon krwar difikilte ki nou annan la, difikilte ki nou annan se ki zot, zot annan en gran problenm pou zot fer sa tranzisyon ant en Gouvernman ki omnipotan, ki desid lo tou keksoz; ki anvi annan gard en pouvwar politik gard en pouvwar diskresyon, gard en pouvwar pou li kapab fer faver oubyen pou li pa kapab fer faver.  Se sa ki zot-! Mwan mon konpran zot mwan!  Akoz laplipar antre zot ki la se bann dimoun i annan ki’n grandi dan sa 40an Parti Inik!

 

(Interruption)

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Wi definitivman.  Definitivman! Definitivman! Sorry mon ava terminen avan.  Definitivman, e mwan mon’n aprann sa – mon’n viv sa from the inside!  Mon’n vwar ki mannyer sa bann keksoz i marse.  Mon’n vwar ki mannyer i marse ki e nou konnen pou dir dan Lalwa nou’n tire en pe partou ‘’the Minister decision shall be final !’  Nou’n tire tousala dan tou bann Lalwa.  Akoz sa ti en prensip ki ti aplike dan bann sistenm Parti Inik.

E la mon pe zis dir avek zot ki ‘’the Minister decision shall be final’’ i ladan.  ‘’The Minister may decide as to the grant or refusal of the permission.  And the Minister shall forward his or her decision to the Authority which shall communicate the decision to the applicant!’’  That’s it.  The Minister says this is the decision communicate to the applicant. 

En pe respe pou Planning Authority, en pe respe pou sa kliyan, e pe plis demokratik, en pe plis latransparans mon krwar i en pe difisil la demokrasi i en keksoz ki difisil.  Me solman nou bezwen pas atraver sa bann semen koumsa.  Sa bann shortcut ki zot anvi i pa marse!

Anfen pa ti marse dan lepase e still i pa pou marse konmela.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Onorab Larue.

 

HON FLORY LARUE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Bonn apre midi Minis ek ou delegasyon e tou Manm.

Mwan mon krwar ki sa pwen ki Onorab Ferrari in met devan mon siporte.

Akoz sa sityasyon ki nou vwar nou ladan avek later isi Sesel ki mannyer Planning in evolve, i montre ki nou bezwen tir pouvwar dan lanmen Minis as much a possible! 

Nou’n vwar kot collective responsibility lo kote bann Minis, zanmen in aplike Sesel, fodre ler i annan en problenm in arive, Minis pa resign!

        An plis ki sa nou’n vwar yer Minis in eksplik nou in donn nou en legzanp kler kot bann later tender ki ozordi en dimoun pe pey plis tax preske nanryen pou sa bann later, nou pa kapab repran ek sa dimoun!  Akoz bann Minis dan lepase in donnen e li i pa kapab fer nanryen!

Alor pou nou kapab bouz devan pou nou protez lentere pep Seselwa annantye mon krwar nou bezwen reget fason ki mannyer bann desizyon i ganny pran.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Larue.  Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr. Chair tou sa bann keksoz ki pe ganny dir i bann rabasman!  Sa pa fer okenn sans !  I pa  fer okenn sans akoz –  

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En pti moman Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Si zot, zot krwar –

 

(Off-Mic)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En pti moman Onorab De Commarmond nou bezwen servi langaz pou nou respekte tou Manm !

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Be mon pa’n zoure parey yer ti ganny zoure mwan!  Mon pe koz byen Mr Speaker!

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Si en Manm i koze, ler Manm i koze ou pa kapab apel son parol rabasman.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Be ki mannyer i apele alor?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

I son lopinyon.  I son lopinyon.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Zot pa konnen ki zot pe dir ! Sanmenm sa ki mon pe dir.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non, non.

 

(Interruption)

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Ou konnen akoz? Mon a eksplike!  Mon ava eksplike! Mon a substantiate ki mon pe dir.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non, non annou.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mon a substantiate! 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Substantiate sa ki ou pe dir.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Wi mon pe dir sa akoz si zot le ariv to that extent  esper zot ariv lo pouvwar zot a fer zot sanzman koumsa  la zot menm! 

Avek nou la sa kalite sanzman mon pa dakor, e nou isi nou pa dakor akoz i pa fer sans.  Napa okenn pei dan lemonn ki fer sa kalite keksoz ki zot le fer.

So that is why ki mon pe dir zot zis pe dir keksoz zot pa konnen ki zot pe dir, e zot pa pe reflesir sa bann keksoz.  Mazin byen ki mon pe dir zot la e mwan Mr Speaker mon dir ki sa propozisyon ki zot pe mete, i pa fer okenn sans.

E alor wi mon lopinyon i pa zot lopinyon met sa to a vote, nou a fini ek sa nou a bouz lo lot.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mon krwar tansyon in mont en pti gin.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Gete, pa trakase ou Onorab Larue.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Tansyon in monte lo sa kote.  Lo sa kote  in monte.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Napa okenn tansyon pe monte Mr Speaker.  Zis selman nou pe dir akoz la ou’n tann li in  rabas ankor !  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non, non personn pa rabase dan Lasanble.  Tou dimoun i la pou reprezant zot constituents pou eksprim zot lopinyon dan en fason lib, dan en fason kalm, dan en fason kot nou bezwen respe kanmarad.

Lopinyon i kapab tre diferan.  Sa i normal dan nenport ki demokrasi dan nenport ki Lasanble.  Me nou pa kapab mank respe pou kanmarad.

Nou annan drwa eksite, me nou pa annan drwa mank respe pou ou kanmarad.  Mon konpran ou’n eksite mon’n les pase me selman pa mank respe pou lezot Manm – sa i enportan.

Mon krwar kot in arive i kler i annan de pwennvi ki totalman diferan, e pou nou pa perdi letan annou pran en vot sa Mosyon in deza ganny segonde.  Tou Manm tou bann Manm ki an faver ki nou pou swiv nou pou swiv sa rekomandasyon ki’n ganny propoze, e si mon kapab demann Onorab Ferrari pou relir 37(6).  En pti moman point of order.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Speaker mon-

 

(Interruption)

 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Paz 56.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mon pe al anba 56 selman mon le al anba 8, akoz 8 i gid ou travay konman Speaker.  E mon le met sa dan ou lanmen.

Konman Speaker ou sipoze the adjudicator of en sityasyon ki’n evolve as to en Lalwa la.

Now ou’n fini vwar pou dir deba in exhausted akoz lot kote in fer en pwen and nou pe pous li towards an amendment lot kote i annan lamazorite obviously lamannman pou pase.

Now it is also your role to protect tou keksoz ki vin dan sa Lasanble – enkli sa Lalwa.

Now ou pa ankor ekout largiman administratif ki sa bann dimoun ki la i annan.  So avek tou respe mon a demann ou allow zot pou fer en dernyen pledwari avek Onorab Ferrari ki konvenki ki dan tou Lalwa nou devret tir tou Minis, akoz mon pa konnen ki mannyer en Gouvernman LDS pou then gouvernen san en pouvwar.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Annou pa al dan en Gouvernman LDS.  Mwan mon pe permet otan deba ki posib mon pa’n vwar personn lo panel lev lanmen pou koze.

        So mon’n mazinen zot pa’n an –    akoz mon ti endike avan si zot anvi zis zot lev zot lanmen mon pou donn zot permisyon koze.  Personn a’n lev lanmen, mwan mon ti a sizere ki Onorab Ferrari i lir son lamannman ki nou segonde nou vote !  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mersi avek ou permisyon Mr Speaker Onorab Georges in fer en pti typo koreksyon e mon a les li lir.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon’n fer plis ki sa e se pou sa rezon mon ti anvi pran laparol.

Si nou pou modifye (6) an fonksyon sa ki Onorab Ferrari pe propoze, nou bezwen delete (7), akoz i pa pou fer okenn sans.  I pou bezwen ale.

Alor propozisyon se sa enn.  (6)’’ The Minister may after considering the records, if any, and the report of findings and recommendations,’’ ki’n ganny mansyonnen dan (5) ‘‘refer the matter to the Authority with his or her recommendation’’ – (for) ‘’refer the matter with his or her recommendation to the Authority for its determination on the application’’ epi (7) i ale.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok okenn Manm ki segonn sa propozisyon?  Onorab Ferrari i segonde. Eski nou kapab pran en vot lo 37(6) as amended avek deletion 37(7).  Tou Manm ki an faver?  Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Deputy Clerk ou a, donn nou count. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair, mon’n rikord 13 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 10 ki’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

13 Manm in vot an faver e 10 Manm in vot kont, savedir lamannman lo 37 (6) ek (7) deletion i pase.  Onorab Georges.  Onorab Ghislain point of order.

 

HON CHANTAL GHISLAIN

Yes Mr Speaker mon ti lev mon lanmen taler pou koze ou pa’n donn mon sans pou mon koze ou’n zis pas lo vot.

Si mon rapel byen yer, lo sa vot ki zot fek vote, yer zot ti tir pouvwar ki Minis napa drwa donn okenn rekomandasyon Board. 

        And ozordi nou anmenn lamannman ki Minis prezan i kapab (re donn sa) – donn rekomandasyon Board.  Yer nou ti tire sa !

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok sa i ou pwennvi lo la, me nou’n fini vote lo (6) ek (7) so i pa pou sanz nanryen.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

I pa pou sanz nanryen.  Non sa se tou pwennvi me i pa pou sanz nanryen dan sa ki in deza ganny aprouve.  So annou kontinyen, annou kontinyen Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair nou pas lo 38 Appeals Board, e la nou pa pou annan gran problenm.  38 (2) ek 38 (3) i annan d2kestyon ki’n souleve ler deba ti on.  Enn se 38 (2) The Appeals Board shall consist of three members appointed by the President.  E enn de dimoun in demande akoz ki se Prezidan ki devret apwent sa Board?  E i e n kestyon se tou ki’n leve dan deba.

E dezyenmman anba 38 (3) menm kalite query ; lo Appeals Board i pou bezwen annan en manm ki en reprezantan Minister Lanvironnman.  E kestyon i ganny demande akoz sa Minister i bezwen ganny reprezante lo Appeals Board?  E mon fer Manm rapel ki Appeal Board pou annan 3 manm.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Eski i annan okenn propozisyon pou amande?  Par egzanp an de olye Prezidan en lot propozisyon?  Vi ki napa okenn propozisyon lamannman then nou kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Next se Minister Lanvironnman dan (3).  Si i devret annan en manm sorti Minister Lanvironnman lo Appeals Board. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Since nou napa okenn lezot propozisyon nou kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair napa gran keksoz (4) ek (5) (4) ek (6) nou ti’n highlight akoz sa issue Prezidan.  Ok? 39, Onorab Pillay.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Chair mon krwar nou ti’n agree ki nou pou insert en lamannman apre 36 ki relye avek sa bann clauses ki nou’n attempt pou fer lamannman ki enkli referral of bann development plans avek Lotorite Distrik.  Referral of development plans avek an ki konsern devlopman bann zil eksetera.

So nou ti’n agree ki nou pa pou kit li kot i ete anba 11 kot ti’n ganny sizere oparavan.  Me ki i pou rantre around 36.  E prezan nou pou bezwen renumber 37.

So eski nou kapab deal avek sa sityasyon lamannman avan ki nou bouz lo 38 silvouple?  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Wi annefe mon pa ti la bomaten.  E mon pa mon pa’n swiv deba eski sa  propozisyon lamannman in ganny retenir oubyen non?  Ki ti pou ki ti pou Leader Lopozisyon?  Zis en kestyon plas i ti anvi amann clause(11) e nou, nou’n ti’n sizere kekfwa i devret rantre la dan sa dan sa border kot nou ete la?  Wi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair an repons Onorab  Georges i ti’n ganny retenir, me selman ti annan en modifikasyon an term pou met en nouvo 3 kot i konsern bann gro proze Onorab Pillay ti pe propoz sa.

E No. (3) ki ti annan disclosure e pou fer bann dimoun mete lo Board ti pou vin (4).

So Onorab Pillay ti pou travay lo en ti pou travay lo en wording pou sub (3), mon pa konnen si in pare avek pou nou kapab diskit lo la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Onorab Pillay Sebastien Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair zis pou azout en lot eleman ki vreman enportan an se ki konsern sa bann lamannman ki la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Zis gid nou ki limero ou lo la.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Nou pe koz lo the ok lamannman orizinal nou ti’n fer serten lamannman avek e premye parti ti annan refer laplikasyon avek bann distrik pou en komanter.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi ki clause sa?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Nou koz sa clause 11 ki ti pe ganny propozisyon pou fer insertion dan Lalwa.  E apre ki nou ti’n nou ti’n regarde ki i pa pou fer sans pou li rantre anba (11) i preferab ki i al anba somewhere anba 36.  Ok? 

        Prezan ki nou ti’n vwar nou ti’n vwar pou dir nou ti’n fer serten lamannman avek clause the original clause, me nou ti osi mazinen ki bezwen enkli en time period.  Within which bann comments ki bezwen ganny fini ganny fer.

And then baze lo en propozisyon par Onorab Henrie an se ki konsern bann devlopman ki tonm an deor bann distrik.  This is where nou ti pe propoze en wording pou en seksyon Sub (3). 

        E sa (3) ki la currently i ava vin fors.  So ki mon ti pe propoze mwan mon ti pe propoze ki  ‘’where in  respect of any development (which is which is not) – where it  will not be possible to’’ prezan i ava kontinyen avek sa bout’ ’in a fiscal form provide’’ son sa dan en distrik – ‘’the Authority shall make available the plans in their office’’ basically. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So ou pe azout en sub (3) anba ki clause?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ki mon pe azoute, mon pe azout en sub (3), so nou deza annan en –

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi anba ki clause ou pe azout en sub (3) ? 

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Anba proposed amendment Mr Chair.  So the proposed amendment is as follows.  Originally ti add  sa   anba section 11 add the following subsection (1) ‘’the Board of     the Authority shall ok refer an application for development to the respective district, or regional Authorities for consideration and  comments within     a prescribed period ensure that  such applications in a form prescribed which has to provide      relevant information whilst respecting the        privacy  rights of an applicant;  shall be displayed in the office of the respective district regional Authorities for public viewing;     inform owners of adjoining    properties and application.’’ 

        Prezan ti annan en de ki ti’n ganny propoze ki mon krwar Onorab Andre ti’n propoz sa de. Mwan mon ti pe propoz en 3.  E sa 3 i lir ki ‘’where in respect of any development where it is not possible to provide’’ sa lenformasyon dan en distrik, mon ti pe propoze ki sa lenformasyon i ganny ‘’provided at the office of the Planning Authority.’’  ‘’’This application   of the office of the Planning Authority.’’ 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So ou ti pou azout li konman en subclause (4).

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ya.  3 i pou vin en 3 prezan.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Akoz nou’n deza azout en subclause (3) anba 11.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

3 i pou vin 4. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Savedir i pou vin subclause 4? 

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Li i pou vin (3) sa (3) konmela pou vin (4).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Akoz mwan mon pe lir-

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Akoz Onorab Andre ti’n fer propozisyon li osi li.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon sa ki mon pe lir se propozisyon Onorab Ramkalawan ki ti met en subclause (3) anba 11, section 11.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Wi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Prezan apre sa ou pe azout en subclause (4) ?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

I annan en No. (1), (a), (b), (c).

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Prezan i annan en No. (2) ki Onorab Andre in azoute.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ler i vin No. (2) i pou vin en (d). 

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Non, non i annan (1) (a), (b), (c) (d), (a), (b), (c) apre i vin (2) apre i ava vin (3).  Konmsi i a vin en clause separe anba li menm.  Apre nou ava vin anba larestan clauses Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Si Onorab Georges i swiv sa, mon ok me selman mon pa pe swiv son numbering.  Onorab Andre.

 

HON CLIFFORD ANDRE

Pou asiste letan nou ti dir section 11 parey in dir, proposal was (a), (b), (c) apre ti annan en (2) yer ki nou ti pe diskit lo la ki ti al koumsa, ‘’for any propose development of an outlying island, the application shall be displayed at the office of the Mayor of Victoria, and notice given in the public media.’’  Sa ti pou (2).  It will be 11 or 36 (2).  Apre ti annan (3) ki Onorab Pillay fek dir ‘’where in respect of any development’’ i pa’n lir nou antye.

Apre ti annan (3) ki ti’n ganny proposed letan Onorab Henrie disclose, ti diskite pou dir dimoun devret konnen lekel bann developer avek bann arsitek, oubyen kwa  lo sa billboard, so sa i ava vin (4)e pou lir koumsa, ‘’disclosure of companies or persons undertaking the project shall be displayed after approval and such affixed on site. ‘’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir anba Lalwa parey in ganny propoze 11 (1) i reste 11 (2) i reste?  Apre nou azout 11 (3) ki Onorab Ramkalawan in propoze.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair mon konpran in deside pa pran propozisyon Onorab Ramkalawan e met li ek 11; nou’n prefere met sa en seksyon separe.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Anba seksyon?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Me se sa se sa deba.  Nou pou fer li rantre la kot nou’n arive, round about kot nou’n arive 35., 36, 37. Se la ki devret rantre.  Me sa ki nou pe sa ki nou ankor pe diskite diskit lo la, se text sa keksoz ki zot in koz lo la bomaten ki nou ti sipoze fer antre lo 36.   Ler nou ti’n adjourn yer, nou ti annan en modifikasyon sa ki Leader Lopozisyon ti’n propoze e nou ti’ fer li konman en propozisyon pou en nouvo 36.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me i nouvo 36?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi e anfen probableman probableman 36.  Setadir i pou rantre kot 36 i ete la e  36  i vin 37 eksetera.

Me sa ki’n arive bomaten se ki sa propozisyon ki nou ti’n kite yer (4er) yer 6er, ti ganny modifye ankor.  E in annan enn de paragraf ki’n ganny azoute, ki Onorab Sebastien Pillay, avek Onorab Clifford Andre pe drafte.

Alor sa ki mwan mon propoze, se ki si zot pou nou pa tarde apre midi la sa deba in fini ganny fer depi bomaten, se si zot si zot dakor avek nou, nou ava deside kote pou fer rantre en nivo seksyon ki annan, pou fer avek transmet plan avek bann Lotorite Distrik, oubyen met zot dan en landrwa kot dimoun i kapab espekte.  E nou ava kontinyen.  Me selman nou zis deside la kote pou fer li rantre.

E apre nou ava ganny loportinite si Lasanble i konfirm nou avek sa latas, pou nou ansanm avek Minister, avek Attorney Zeneral formulate son text pe fer li rantre.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon satisfe avek sa propozisyon, alors si mon trouv ou byen nou tonm dakor lo ki bor nou fer rantre a sa pwen ?  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Avek ou permisyon Mr Speaker, mon ti a kontan zis dir avek Onorab Georges ti annan osi sa pwen ki Onorab Andre ti pe ensiste ki’n aparet deba se lenformasyon, ler proze i konmanse.  Ok konmsi public information on the billboard.  Konmsi total disclosure what kind of project this is, ok.  Konmsi sa osi sa i enn bann bout si nou dakor lo la it should be there, then we can move.  Si nou pa dakor si nou pa dakor nou annan en problenm.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ok Mr Chair mwan mon annan mon le zis fer en propozisyon avan ; sa i sipoze kouver propozisyon pou en devlopman ki tonm dan en rezyon pou al tonm dan en distrik.  So mon dir ‘’Where it is not possible to display the application for development in a district or regional Authorities,  the application or information whilst respecting the  privacy  rights of the applicant, shall be made available for public viewing at the offices of Planning Authority.’’ 

Ok mon pa konnen si sa i kouver sa ki nou ti pe rode pou sa bout.  Apre dezyenmman an se ki konsern sa size display en proze, mon ti a kontan nou fer presizyon lo eski nou pou display menm en private  dwelling  house lo en board?  Oubyen nou pe koz lo en proze.

So nou bezwen annan en kategorizasyon akoz otherwise nou pou fer en Lalwa ki zeneral, ok? 

 

(Off-Mic)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

So nou azout commercial?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ya. So mon krwar 36 parey ou’n propoze Onorab Georges i fer sans, so nou ava insert li dan 36.  Savedir nou pa pe pran sa adisyon sou-seksyon (3) anba lamannman Onorab Ramkalawan.  Ok korek so pli tar nou pou ganny en versyon nou pe konfiz zot sa responsabilite pou drafte selon diskisyon ki annan dan Lasanble.  Ok mersi.  Nou pou kontinyen.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair nou ti’n ariv 39.  Mon remersye Manm pou fer mon rapel sa lapsus.  39 (2) zot ava vwar i annan enn de propozisyon lamannman e sa se pou ler en devlopman i ganny fer san permisyon e pli tar i ganny regilarite setadir Planning i donn li permisyon apre.

Sa bann propozisyon avan ti, sa pa ti pou kouver bann keksoz ki ti’n ganny fer avan sa Act i vin o pouvwar.  E nou, nou pe propoze ki i kouver menm sa bann keksoz ki’n ganny fer anba, ki CPA san permisyon.  E ki kapab ganny regilarize anba sa nouvo Lalwa, alor se sa bann lamannman ki nou pe fer pou ‘’delete not being a date prior to the commencement of this Act’’, dan sa de Sou-Seksyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski napa okenn, Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Zis en pti keksoz pou nou al 39 (1) mon krwar i pou pridan pou nou met ‘’subject to section 69.’’  Akoz menm si nou pe fer li en retrospective application sa dimoun primordyal i fer en lofans.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Annefe sa ki Minis pe dir i fer bokou sans.  Akoz ler ou fer en keksoz sn permisyon ou komet en lofans.  E si pli tar Minis i vini e regilariz ou devlopman e i dir ok la ou annan permisyon, ou pe ou pa pe ganny pini pou ou lofans ki ou’n komet.

Sa ki Minis pe propoze la se tou lede opsyon i reste ouver.  I regilarize, me sa pa anpes ou ganny pourswiv pou sa lofans i ganny fine oubyen ganny compound pou sa lofans ki ou’n komet.

Mon krwar se sa ki Minis pe sizere.  Donk akoz sa de sa de seksyon pa ti pe koz ek kanmarad ava, mannyer i ete la.  Alor ‘’subject to section 39 the Authority may …’’eksetera i fer i marye zot ansanm.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So seksyon 39(1) i ganny amande.  Pou met ‘’subject to…’’

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

‘’Section 69.’’ 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon ti’n propoz en pti amannman 39 (1), e selman i byen posib ki it’s taken care of the Parts VII offenses and penalties. 

        Akoz i whereas i annan bann penalite ki ganny ki ganny deside dan Part VII isi mete ‘’on payment of such fee’’ mon pa konnen si i devret ‘’on payment of such fee and penalty as  may be prescribed’’    .  We need to add ‘’ and penalty there,’’ because the penalty then come at the back. 

Sa i zis mon pa tro konn konnen mannyer i devret ganny drafte, alors mon pe propoz sa.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges eski ‘fee’ i kapab include en ‘penalty’ oubyen i pli bon met ‘fee’ and ‘penalty’ separe?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Bann expert i ava dir nou.  Mon krwar sa ki la pe ganny dir, se ki ler nou regilariz ou devlopman ou pou bezwen pey sa planning fee ki ou pa’n peye ki ou ti pou’n peye si ou ti’n demann permisyon.  Penalty i ava vin anba son lofans ki i pe komet.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir i drop ou drop lamannman 39 (1). Onorab Ferrari.  Ok.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En pti moman Onorab Loze.

 

HON JOHAN LOZE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker eskiz mwan.  Selman zis lo en baz prensip lamazorite dimoun ki an vyolasyon an vyolasyon Lotorite Plan, i bann senp dimoun ki’n fer en pti domisil a kote lakaz son manman or some such.  

        Konmsi nou pa pe al en pe tro lwen zot fees, fines, penalties, fees lo fines?  Nou konmsi annou aret pini dimoun avek larzan!  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon konpran sa ki ou pe dir,  me selman sa sete propozisyon ki ti deza la.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi Mr Chair se pa nou sepa Lotorite Plan ki pou deside.  Si en dimoun in komet en lofans e Lotorite Plan i krwar ki sa i merit al pli lwen.  Zot ava notifye Lapolis.  Lapolis i ava deside li dan son diskresyon si sa i en minor offence oubyen si i devret pourswiv.  E si Lapolis i devret pourswiv Attorney Zeneral i ava deside si sa i devret al pli devan oubyen si i minor. 

        E si i al li devan i ariv Ankour, Ankour i ava pran konsiderasyon si sa i en pti dimoun ki pa kapab afford e i ava pini li an konsekans.  Mon krwar i annan ase safeguard pou fer pou asire ki sa propozisyon sa keksoz pa ganny pa ganny abize.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Annou kontinyen Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi 40 napa gran keksoz ‘devloper applicants’ parey nou ti’n dir.

41 ; 41 propozisyon lamannman se pou azout en nouvo Sou-Seksyon, pou lemoman rezis ; Lotorite i annan en register.  I register i met tou bann aplikasyon ladan.  Me la sa ki pe ganny propoze se azout sou-seksyon (2) pou dir ki sa rezis i ava ouver e i a kapab ganny piblik i a kapab ganny akse avek dan en fason ki Minis i va preskri anba en S.I. 

       

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Okenn komanter sirtou lo panel? Ok nou kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Nou proceed.  Lezot se bann pti amannman tipografi Mr, Mr Chair 43, 44 napa gran keksoz 45.  La nou ariv lo beach access. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Avan nou al lo en lot Seksyon e entrodwir en nouvo topik.  Sorry mon fer retourn en pti pe an aryer.

Me dan 38 (5); 38 (5) ‘’The members of the Appeals Board shall hold office of three years and shall be eligible for reappointment.’’ 

        Mon zis anvi demann en kestyon la.  Nou pa pe koz term limit.  So mon pa konnen si sa i en keksoz ki egziste dan bann lezot Lalwa, me solman ki kantite letan en dimoun i kapab ganny apwente lo en Board? Konbyen fwa?  Akoz ou pe mazin renouvelman sa Board, an menm tan balans avek leksperyans.  So mon zis anvi konn rezondet par deryer kit li kit li koumsa san entrodwir en a concept of term limit.  Mon zis anvi konnen en lesplikasyon.  Mersi bokou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Eski lo panel. 

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Wi tou le 3an i ganny me selman par egzanp si i ganny elekte 3 fwa 3an i fer li 9an lo en Board.  Akoz ozordi Sesel i annan limit pou Prezidan bann lasosyasyon, par egzanp lasosyasyon ki mon en manm  AMPS ou pa annan drwa vin Chairman pou plis ki de fwa konsekitiv.  Konmsi i annan sa konsep deza dan nou bann Konstitisyon bann lasosyasyon bann keksoz koumsa.

Mon zis anvi konn rezondet akoz ki napa en the concept of term limit la.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Petet Mr Pool baze lo leksperyans drafting pou lezot Lalwa.  Eski zot limit lakantite fwa en dimoun i kapab ganny apwente lo 3en Board?  Oubyen i plito ouver e a diskresyon Prezidan?

 

SENIOR LEGAL DRAFTSPERSON MR VICTOR POOL

I annan Lalwa spesifik   .  Thank you Mr Speaker.  I annan Lalwa spesifye e limit li for only two terms.  Me selman laplipar i kit li ouver reappointment indefinite. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok so vwala la pratik.  So i depan lo manm,  ki zot santi, i devret dan sa ka.  Zot annan en propozisyon ?

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Non mon napa difikilte avek sa.  Mon zis anvi konn klarifikasyon ki Mr Pool in donn nou.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok thank you.  So savedir nou a move on.  Nou ti lo.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

45, 45 (5) i annan de pti modifikasyon, nou pe propoze azout apre public access to a beach pou fer sir ki se sa ki nou pe koz lo la.  E osi kot, kot Lotorite Plan ler i pe donn en permisyon, i kapab konman en kondisyon fer sa devloper donn akse a en beach ; kot i annan en existing access. Se plito sa existing access ki pou ganny donnen.

Me i annan de fwa sa existing access li menm li i pou enterfer ek sa devlopman, e alor nou pe propoze another access of similar convenience ; ou pa anpes en devlopman pa arive akoz i annan en akse dan milye en later dizon.  Si sa devloper i kapab donn en akse of equal convenience lo en lot landrwa son later, nou pe propoze ki sa i ganny fer pou ki devlopman pa a ganny anpese, e at the same time akse pa a ganny konpromi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Epi 45 (6) ti annan pou 45 (6) i ti lir ‘’under the provisions of any Act’’, pou lemoman.  E nou pe zis sanze e dir ‘’provisions of this Act or any other Act’’, pou fer pou elarzir en pti pe son, son lespas.

Napa gran keksoz ankor.  Nou al lo Sub-Part IV clause 46 sa se Preservation Orders, napa gran sanzman zis enn de pti lamannman tipografi.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Wi mon zis annan en kestyon vitman with regards to beach access. 

Par egzanp dan (6) nou pe koz lo where – mon pe mazin nou pe koz plito lo bann propriyete la kot kekfwa tradisyonnelman dimoun ti annan en akse, right?  What about dan en sityasyon pran Eden Island i en zil ki nou’n kree ki pa ti la e i annan lans li.

Ki mannyer i fit in li son akse si mwan demen mon anvi al lo enn sa bann lans?  Akoz tradisyonnelman i pa ti la.  nou’n kree li.  Ki mannyer sa i work out pou access piblik?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon mazinen mon a les panel reponn. Selman mon mazinen i menm akse ki ler ou al lo en zil.  Ou kapab al lo nenport ki lans ki annan lo Eden Island provided i below the high water mark.  Selman i annan akse ki pas atraver pon, i annan akse ki vin atraver delo sale.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Wi Mr Chair, atraver pon, akoz apre li wi ou napa akse laba deryer avek sa bann lakaz.  So unless mon pran en bato.  Me selman mon anvi konnen zis ki panel ki repons panel i annan pou mon kestyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski okenn manm lo panel i kapab ed Onorab Henrie, e Lasanble sa presizyon?  Mr Francois.  Mr François avan apre mon a donn Mr Gill.

 

HON CHURCHILL GILL

Zis avan panel i reponn petet ler zot ti donn ler sa ti pe ganny conceptual, eski i annan bann provizyon oubyen bann Lagreman ki zot in ferm ki pa tonm dan menm kad avek bann zil ki normal ki nou pe viv lo la?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Gill.  Panel Mr François.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANÇOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman, dan fason ki sa Lalwa in ganny konsevwar, in pran kont bann lans ki tradisyonnelman i annan en eleman piblik oubyen vizitasyon.

Ti okouran dan en legzersis pou ir i annan serten lans ki osi pratikman i anklave lo kote son landward me, selman i get listwar vizitasyon i napa en listwar.  I dimoun pa abitye al lo sa bann lans neseserman eksetera.

        So alors sa Lalwa pa’n al lo the extend pou kouver tou sa bann eleman, me plito protez bann lans prensipal pou piblik.

So i ti tre difisil pou aplik tou ka.  Zis atraver sa Lalwa, akoz i annan lezot lenplikasyon lezot Lalwa, lezot ki bezwen ganny regarde.

So alor fason ki’n ganny kon figire ladan ti pou kapab donn lavantaz piblik lo bann landrwa ki zot abitye lo la.

So mon pa konnen ki Lasanble si zot anvi azout bann lezot kondisyon, me selman ti pe plito get li dan sa konteks, letan ti pe ganny drafte.

Lo kote zil, vi ki zil i ganny akse par bato, dan bann ka bann zil, so sa bann provizyon ti deza egziste ki ou kapab al lo zil through bato so i pa’n antre direkteman li menm li anba la.  Akoz li i akse from semen ki i annan en propriyete devan li avan ou zwenn lans ki pe kouver.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Larue.

 

HON FLORY LARUE

Mersi Mr Speaker, mon pe regard (6) kestyon lo kote lans spesyalman dan sa legzanp Eden IslandLetan mon pe get (6),  eski i pa dir ki si sa ‘’traditional public use has not been establish the Minister may acquire’.  I pa fer provizyon la ki kapab donn sa akse ?

Apre mon annan lo sa bout (5) letan i dir koumsa ki ‘’where there is no alternative public access to a beach’’ zeneralman ou vwar sa bann akse lo bann later kot i pa devlope.

Me letan sa dimoun i bezwen devlope, Lalwa la ki devan nou i dir ‘’or another access of similar convenience.’’  Lefe ki sa later pa devlope e piblik i pran akse pli fasil, e sa path i pa en path ki’n ganny build, so napa kou.  Me lefe ki zot pe dir ki Lalwa pe dir i bezwen fer en access of similar convenience, who bears the cost?  Akoz letan piblik ti pe servi traditionally it cost to no one!   Sa problenm.  Me selman lean later i ganny devlope, the bearer of the cost is who?  Konmsi mon pa vwar li in a way i en Lalwa ki pe enpoz en kou lo en dimoun ki pa’n devlop son later lo en peryod letan.  So eski i annan en leeway la ki nou kapab regarde?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon konpran ou pwen, me ou bezwen fer en propozisyon.  Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chairman mon anvi ganny gide avek panel, mon ti raise en pwen dan final debates lo merit prensip.

Mon anvi petet zot dir nou eski lo ki grander lans akoz mon pe vwar referans pe fer an access.  Me i annan lans kot ou vwar poudir pou rezon sekirite ouswa sov lavi dimoun kot ou vwar pou dir en akse petet i pa ase.

So mon anvi ganny gide ouswa ganny eksplike ki  fason eski Minister li i pou deal avek sa sityasyon.  Akoz ozordi nou bezwen fer fas avek realite lavi.  Realite devlopman.

E i annan par egzanp mon pe get Grand Anse Mahé Barbarons grander lans.  E  kot akse i ete ozordi i ganny rekonnet.

Me selman me ou vwar poudir i annan serten bann difikilte si an ka i annan bann aksidan.

So mon  anvi ganny gide akoz mon pa pe vwar dan lesplikasyon la.  Akoz lo zis en akse.  Eski Minister li i pou annan drwa al negosye avek bann devloper prive, pou en 2enm akse dizon ki annan sa nesesite kot nou vwar poudir i annan lenportans met en 2enm akse. Parey mon pe dir se ki i annan serten longer lans ki i pou difisil vreman si ou anvi sov avi ouswa pou public security pou deal avek sityasyon ki kapab devlope.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair Mr Chair i annan de keksoz mon ti a kontan dir, enn se sa beach access an relasyon avek Planning. 

        Mwan prosen an Septanm nou pou regard domenn piblik an zeneral avek kisisa ki fer beach access; ki sa ki fer domenn piblik e ki beach access devret donnen anba civil code.   Tou lede pou marye ek kanmarad.  Sa ki pe ganny propoze la se pa the be all and end all, se pa dernyen lo sa size.  Se en propozisyon ki  toutafe ki lontan nou’n swete annan, me ki an ekse avek en devlopman.  Ki dir ki ler ou annan en devlopman Planning Authority i kapab ensiste ki i annan en lakse avek lans.  Sa se premye keksoz.

2enm keksoz fodre osi nou fer nou av vwar sa mwan prosen ler nou vin debat lo Civil Code.  Nou bezwen fer distenksyon ant bann lans ki naturally occuring, ki zero lozikman zot arive avek bann lans ki dimoun i kree.

E Eden Island i en legzanp i pa ti, ler Eden Island ti ganny konble i pa ti ganny konble pou fer lans neseserman.  E bann lans ki’n ganny kree, i ganny kree a lenteryer pou lamazorite pou en rezon spesifik.

E mon pa krwar dan lespri dimoun i annan mon pa krwar ki dimoun i annan dimoun deor apard bann dimoun ki kekfwa ki anvi teste sa Lalwa oubyen zis pou nwizans ki dir anba sa seksyon la prezan tou dimoun i kapab travers Eden Island al lo enn bann lans.  Mon pa krwar ki se sa lentansyon.

E pou konnen ki e sa i pa zis isi ki arive.  Akoz i annan dimoun ki fer lans pa lao high water mark.  Isi Sesel me bokou Maurice nou vwar bann lans Maurice.  Zot tir son vegetation ziska byen o.  Pou benefis bann devan bann lotel sirtou benefis bann kliyan lotel.

Me malgre ki i en lans, i pa en domenn piblik i pa en landrwa kot ou kapab vini e la mon konnen ki Roche Caiman byento pou annan en devlopman lo Roche Caiman ki pou fer en lans en artificial beach ki pou ganny sispann par lao delo.  Ou pa kapab – mon krwar nou bezwen regard sa distenksyon.  E ler e si nou regard sa e nou dir ki lans ki ganny kree par liniver, sa tou dimoun i  annan akse mwayen non serten kondisyon ki ou bezwen respekte ler ou al lo sa lans.  E lans ki ganny kree pou en rezon spesifik.  Mon krwar nou bezwen fer en distenksyon ant sa de keksoz.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair. Mr Chair mon krwar petet an sipor mon koleg Onorab Larue ki’n lev en kestyon.  Petet nou’n dismiss sa kestyon en pe tro vit, ti ava bon panel i fer en refleksyon lo la.

Akoz son kestyon i pertiman, sa ki’n demande se ki ler sa akse ki ou bezwen provide alterntively pa fasil pou fer ou bezwen fer li probableman at a great cost pou sa dimoun i fer li.  Who bares the cost of fer sa akse.  Premyerman enn.

Who bears the cost of maintaining that access?  Ou vwar?  Akoz the development of the first place, ok let’s say it bear the cost of making the first access, napa problenm.  But then me si ou bezwen maintain sa access.  I sa akse i bann peron i annan railing i annan tou bann keksoz.

So mon krwar se sa ki nou pe ganny demande pou reflesir lo la.  I pa neseserman mean ki nou i pa neseserman kont ki en devlopman fer sa akse.

But the question is how is the access going to maintain akoz ou vwar landrwa kot devloper i fer akse e akse pa’n ganny maintain.  Akoz petet devloper i santi pou dir should I maintain that access at my own cost.  This is where ki mon krwar petet panel i kapab reflekte lo sa kestyon si ou permet Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Well, wi me selman still nou annan en propozisyon pou amande oubyen non?  Si non i pou zis en deba an zeneral e nou pa pe fer naryen lo la.   Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mr Speaker mon le zis pran sa lokazyon.  Mon le zis pran sa lokazyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon a met ou apre.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ghislain.  Onorab Ghislain ou annan laparol.

 

HON CHANTAL GHISLAIN

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr. Speaker mon kestyon sete par egzanp dan bann ka, akoz en Lalwa prezan ki pou al met an plas.  Dan ka kot akoz bokou bann problenm konmela i aktyel la.  Dan bokou ka kot bann lotel or any lakaz in fini fer, e napa sa akse.  Swa zot in fer miray swa zot in fini bare per se.

        Eski dan sa Lalwa si i pase i pou ale i pou fors sa bann dimoun prezan pou zot kapab donn akse dimoun prezan?   akoz se sa ki kestyon ki bokou dimoun pe demande.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi mon mazinen wi i pou fors dimoun.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mr Speaker avan mon pa konnen si panel pou response pou sa enn.

Me selman mon ti a  kontan profit sa lokazyon pou dir parey Onorab Georges sa i en pa.  E i en pa enportan ki nou pe pran ozordi pou nou enshrined dan Lalwa Planning ki ler devlopman i ganny fer akse i ganny donnen.

E sa pou ganny konplimante parey Onorab Georges in dir avek revizyon Civil Code.  Mwan mon ti a zis kontan ki ozordi nou bann frer ek ser Seselwa i realize poudir sa i en pa an avan.  In pran nou pe al 250an in pran 250an pou nou ariv lo en deba lo sa size.  I en progre ki nou’n fer a lavenir.  Ler ou pas dan sa semen i bezwen sa access pou ariv lo sa lans.  Konport ou.  Konmsi mon krwar i enportan konmsi pou nou dir avek dimoun i annan bokou dimoun ki konnen mannyer i arive, ler i pe ale aswar i nepli konnen kote access i ete.

So mon krwar i enportan e mwan mon dir sa a ozordi akoz ki mannyer sa size pou ganny devlope pou ganny trete a lavenir i pou osi enfliyans nou konman en Lezislater le nou ava pe revwar Civil Code. 

        Alors annou pran li avek annou selebre, en laviktwar pou lepep Seselwa.   Me selman annou selebre li an mazinen pou dir nou osi nou annan responsabilite pou nou zourir sa drwa avek bokou respe, bokou dizyenmman parey Onorab De Commarmond i kontan dir.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.   Onorab Hoareau.

 

HON JOHN HOAREAU

Mersi Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker mon ti a kontan petet sizere ki nou met devan beach natural beach.  So petet si sa ti ava reponn en pe query Onorab Henrie.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi Onorab Larue.

 

HON FLORY LARUE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon remersye Onorab Pillay pou siport sa ki mon ti pe dir.  Vreman letan ou dir en public en public access i en public road.  So kantmenm pas lo en later prive mon ankor pe demande who bares this cost of this road.  Mwan mon plito nou kit li konman en demarkasyon.  Me selman si i pou vin en public road fodre Gouvernman i pran son en cost issue, i bezwen annan en cost issue.  akoz i fasil pou nou dir lo plan pou dir sa propriyeter pou fer en public access, who bears the cost of this public road because it comes public road.

        Apre lo kote later lans Eden Island mwan pou mon, mon pa pe konpran natural beach and non-natural beach akoz beach i form artificial.  Akoz artificial is manmade. 

        Me lo sa bann lans, delo ki’n delo ki vini ki ale ki kree lans pli pti pli gran e ennler lans i formen dan bann lezot landrwa akoz mannyer nou, nou manipil lakot.

So mon pa vwar ki mannyer sa i propriyete pou nou mannyer sityasyon nou zil i ete.  Me selman si eski mon ti a kontan demande lo kote legal eski si i kouver access avek Eden IslandMersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab William.

 

HON WAVEN WILLIAM

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker mon pou ankor raise sa pwen ki mon’n tous lo la, mon pa konnen si panel pou respond lo la.

Akoz letan nou pe regard lafason nou bann profil lans mannyer i ete, i annan bann diferan kategori e lafason ki ganny an serkle par bann devlopman.  E mwan mon pe met lanfaz lo a akoz mon pe vwar avek devlopman akse pou sekirite ensidswit, pou fer louvraz, Lapolis ouswa bann ki pe met lord avek lape.  Nou annan en ta keksoz ki pe arive ozordi avek en sel akse i fer li difisil pou kapab fer serten travay ki Lotorite ti a kontan fer. Menm parey mon dir dan distrik dimoun ki anvi ede pou asiste pou sov lavi.

Me mon santi pou dir si nou pa regard sa en pti pe pli lwen dan lavenir, i pou anpes ouswa limit kalite aksyon dan en fason prevansyon.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab William.  Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair zis en pti pwen petet pou nou reflesir lo la e pou panel petet pran konsiderasyon letan sa Lalwa i ganny aprouv i ganny deal avek se, Onorab Hoareau in koz lo natural beach  versus    petet  manmade   beach. 

E nou konnen nou letan nou’n konble pa ti konble pou fer lans, me selman par rapor ek sa natural beach zot in formen. Ok?

E so prezan sa bann later i ankor later Gouvernman dan en serten sans lo bor Airport, menm lo Providence, menm lo bout ki vini ziskan kot Eden Island sa bout kot Airtel i annan bout ki ankor pou Gouvernman e ki annan beaches ki’n formen partou la.

E mon krwar sa i devret ganny pran konsiderasyon.  E i annan serten sa bann lans ki ganny frekante, par bann zabitan dan bann zanmirant, oubyen lezot distrik, so piblik i servi pou en serten extent.  So mon krwar sa osi i enportan ganny pran konsiderasyon letan pe koz akse, sirtou avan ou al lwe sa bann later oubyen vann sa bann later ek lezot dimoun.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Mr François.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANÇOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Mon krwar konsern Onorab De Commarmond i ganny kouver dan lesans ki si i annan en landrwa pe ganny servi,  me then nouvo devlopman i antre, lotorite Plan anba sa Prozedlwa i kapab met kondisyon pou mentenir akse, pou al lo sa lans.

Se napa naryen avan ou pe met en nouvo keksoz, en kondisyon pou rantre, kot ou pou donn kontinyen donn sa pa drwa pasaz bann dimoun ki servi.  Sa i kouver la li.

Bout kot si en devlopman ti’n ganny fer ki ti ilegal obor en lans, Lalwa osi i fer provizyon anba seksyon 45 (3) pou pa regilariz li.  Ki konpare avek seksyon 39 ki a lao ‘opsyon pou regilarize, sa avek bi pou limit sa bann lobstak ki annan, so si ou pa regilariz li i pou vedir bezwen retire lo la.

Dan bann ka kot mon’n deza annan en akse me ou anvi enn ki pli konvenab, oubyen ou anvi bann multiple options pou servi, mon mazinen i toultan posib pou annan negosyasyon.  Me kote negosyasyon pa aboutir, mon pa konnen si i annan lezot mekanizm ki donn Minis pouvwar petet pou rantre.  Me selman sa Lalwa mon’n koz lo la li parey i ete, par egzanp mon krwar akizisyon i kapab antre dan sa konteks spesifik.  Me selman Minis i kapab servi lezot mwayen petet pou kapab negosye pou allow. 

Me si i deza in annan in donn nou enn pou ou ganny 2 3, 4, si sa 2, 3, 4 ti annan akse long dimoun ti pe pase, ou pe met en nouvo devlopman Planning i kapab met kondisyon pou kontinyen kit en akse.  Si ti zis bloke menm depi lontan, ti napa en history of pase, ou anvi entrodwir enn, me napa en devlopman ki pe vin avek then i pou difisil pou li rantre anba sa Lalwa, akoz sa Lalwa pe rantre anba devlopman.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Minister. 

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Kekfwa mon ti ava azoute osi ki kekfwa in ler pou nou kekfwa defini what kind of access whether it’s foot whether motorable.  Akoz mon krwar si nou pou fer motorable then i pou annan en pe konsekans pou sa dimoun ki  pe reste si en landrwa kot en dimoun pe reste.

So kekfwa en keksoz ki nou kapab fer nou kapab defini sa, pou fer li pli akseptab pou tou lede piblik e osi sa dimoun osi ki annan son later.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Adelaide.  Ok Onorab Georges ou ti’n.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi Mr Speaker mon a pran sa pwen Minis.  Mon krwar se sa.  Se egzakteman sa ki Planning Authority i devret fer.  Se sa ka akoz ler zot donn plan ler zot donn planning permission zot regard sak ka lo en case by case basis.  Napa liniversalite.

I posib ki dan serten ka ou kapab met en motorable access parey i annan enn ant  Avani obor lotel Avani Barbarons.  I annan en access i en motorable access dimoun i drive.  I annan en packing zot park zot loto, zot al bor lanmer.

So sa i enn dan lezot landrwa i pa pou posib e i pou bezwen vin en foot access.  Me mon krwar sa draft mannyer i ete la i les Planning Authority avek sa diskresyon ki zot devret annan pou zot deside ki kalite access pou annan dan sa ka.

2enm pwen se en kestyon son beach.  E mon krwar sa kote i ete la, kot i ete la sa draft sel  keksoz ki i dir se ler i annan en devlopman ki pe ganny fer Planning i kapab ensiste ki i annan en akse, oubyen akoz ti annan, oubyen an fonksyon en devlopman fer sir ki akse i reste.  Se tou ki fer.

E mon krwar sa i byen, i pa kapab al pli lwen.  Me a en serten moman nou pou bezwen deside lo ki kategori lans ki  ou bezwen ganny akse.  Akoz i anon lans ki ganny kree spesifikman pou sa devloper.

Mon a donn en legzanp Pangia, Pangia ti napa lans la, zot vini zot fer en devlopman e an fonksyon sa devlopman zot kree en lans.  Nou pa kapab ensiste prezan pou nou annan en akse atraver Pangia pou al lo sa lans.  Akoz i pa ti la, i a dan nou Patrimwann, zot ki’n vin kree sa lans.  Ou pa kapab espekte prezan benefisye lo en keksoz ki ou napa par ladan !  Mon krwar nou bezwen a en serten moman definir kisisa beach, e mon krwar se la kot definisyon i devret vin.

Mon pa krwar ki nou devret fer li apre midi la ozordi dan sa, dan sa Lalwa.  Me mon krwar nou pou bezwen nou bezwen come to grips avek sa, ler nou deal avek Civil Code mwan prosen.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Onorab Gill.

 

HON CHURCHILL GILL

Mersi Mr Chair ler nou pe dir akse lans pou tou Seselwa, fodre pa nou bliye pou dir nou osi annan bann dimoun ki servi wheelchair, ek bann dimoun ki dezabilite.

Nou annan legzanp Praslin par egzanp Lemuria, kot sak akse ki li in donnen en dimoun ki dan wheelchair pa pou kapab ale la lans.

So eski ler sa ki Onorab Georges in dir, ler Minis i servi son diskresyon ler Lotorite i servi son diskresyon, nou bezwen pran kont tou sa.  Akoz ou pe mazin footpath dan nou lespri nou pe mazin tou dimoun i kapab marse.  Nou pa pe pran kont pou dir be nou bann dimoun osi ki annan bann physical challenges, zot osi zot sipoze kapab apresye nou lans parey nou, nou pe fer.  So ti a bon nou pran kont sa osi.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ghislain.

 

HON CHANTAL GHISLAIN

Mr Speaker, savedir sa ki mon pe konpran byen apre repons Mr CEO, se ki sa Bill la i pa pou rezourd problenm aktyel la?

Akoz problenm la se ki dimoun pe dir ou tel dimoun in fini fer son devlopman mon anvi al lo sa lans mon pa ganny akse.  Savedir pa pe kapab fors zot pou donn akse dimoun la.  Si mon konpran byen?  Fodre dimoun i konpran sa byen deor.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Bon mon pa ankor tann okenn propozisyon pou amann sa ki la devan nou.  Nou’n tann bokou deba, bokou e panel i kapab donn en larepons, me selman se bann Manm se zot se nou Bill se nou ki kapab sanze, me byensir si en substitution change ou bezwen donn notis.

E alor unless i ti ava minor notice nou pou bezwen limit diskisyon lo la.  Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair par lefe ki mon’n mon ki ti lev sa kestyon lo la.  mon’n ekout Onorab Georges byen kot in eksplik nou ki, ki mannyer sa provizyon la i pe zis asire ki letan i annan en devlopman ki mannyer dan sa akse, sirtou si dimoun ti deza pe ganny akse.

E mon pe konfye mon konfyans dan li pou dir letan Civil Code i vini sa i a vin en loportinite pou nou deal avek.

So mon propoze ki nou move lo sa pwen.   Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon Onorab Adelaide.

 

HON FRANCOIS ADELAIDE

Mr Speaker zis pou siport en pe Onorab Ghislain.  Konmsi nou pe fer Lalwa la.  Nou ti deza annan lans mon krwar i devret aplik pou bann lans ki’n deza la, ki propriyeter in deza fini built.  Apre ki ban ki  pe vini.

Akoz nou issue ler nou ti pe koz avek Msye Faure, se ki bann lans ki ti annan akse ki propriyeter ti bloke.

So mon krwar nou bezwen fer en Lalwa ki sa bann lans osi i bezwen free.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab, non Mr François ou ti’n lev lanmen.

 

CEO MR JOSEPH FRANÇOIS

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Seksyon (6), 45 (6) eski i pa kouver sa diskisyon ?   I dir ‘’where the only landward access to s beach is through an existing private development where traditional public use pursuant to subsection (5) has not been established, the Minister may acquire the right to the public use of that beach access by gift, negotiation, contract’’, whatever.  I pa kouver en pti pe bann senaryo ki-?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Nou anvi al ankor plis dan deba lo la?  Akoz unless nou ganny propozisyon nou pou zis vire, vire lo la me nou pa pe fer progre.  Akoz i 3:30 depi ler nou’n konmanse nou’n konmans lo 37 nou’n fer zis (7) clause i annan ziska 80 pou ale nou pou m reste la ziska 7er mon ok ek sa.

Me selman unless nou annan propozisyon avek lamannman nou pou fer sa travay vin pli difisil avek deba selman.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair nou annan en problenm la.  Nou problenm se ki subclause 45 e subclause 45 (6) pe dir Minis pe pran serten pouvwar.  Me selman nou’n fini tir laplipar pouvwar Minis.

 

(Off-Mic)

Ahr!

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

So la sey eksplik mon la.  Konmsi nou’n vwar ki nou ti pe sey fer zot konpran taler.

So mon krwar ki dan en pti pouvwar Minis zot pe tir pouvwar Minis partou zot pa pe realize.

E Onorab Henrie e Onorab Adelaide is absolutely right! Absolutely right!  Menm si sa lans ti ganny kree par sa devloper, i en lans ki vin la prezan – non?  Egzakteman.

So mwan mon krwar swa nou pran en break apre nou come back nou remet Minis kot i devret vini dan Lalwa ki serten pouvwar pou li fer rekomandasyon e fer serten sanzman, or swa nou move on e nou les sa parey i ete.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mwan mon pa vwar okenn konfli lo en pwennvi legal lo sa k in gannyen.  Me petet ou kapab argimante pou dir petet lo en kote en serten pouvwar i ganny tire, me lo en lot kote may acquire, ‘’may recommend as a condition.’’  So, i annan en serten limitasyon.  Me se koumsa ki nou ete.  Mon propoze vi ki in ariv 3.33 ki nou adjourn ziska 4er nou retournen 4er, me mon ti a front man rekomann ek bann Manm ler nou vini, annou pa zis fer li deba ou demann kestyon, me vin avek propozisyon lamannman pou fer travay Onorab Georges ki pe finalman drafte tou bann lamannman, vin pli fasil, e ki nou kapab pas sa o pli vit posib.

E okenn lamannman sibstansyel ki pa’n ganny prezante pa kapab ganny konsidere sa staz.

Alor nou ava adjourn ziska 4er.

 

(BREAK)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bonn apre midi tou bann Manm Onorab, tou dimoun ki pe swiv nou travay Lasanble Nasyonal nou pe kontiny avek deba pa deb plito bann Staz Komite, lo Physical Planning Bill ki devan nou.  Onorab Adelaide.

 

HON FRANCOIS ADELAIDE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair avan ki nou’n al break nou ti annan sa pti bout ti annan enn de pti bann kontansyon lo la.

E ler nou’n koze avek Onorab Bernard Georges in fer mon konpran pou dir sa akse parey mon ti’n demann li sirtou lo kote Baie Lazare lo lans Valmer, e in dir mon pou dir i garanti anba sa Lalwa, so mon pou les li pou li eksplike, e pou tou zabitan Baie Lazare tande.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Adelaide.   Bon si mon lir 45 (5) (6) i kler poudir akse, i fer en provizyon pou annan akse, e i pou swiv bann kondisyon ki (5) ek (6) sirtou pe koz lo la.  Alors sa i kler. Sa i kler.

Ki mon ti a kontan dir avek bann Manm se ki nou annan letan limite, e nou ti a kontan fini sa Bill ozordi.  Alor mon pou mon trouv i neseser pou mon dir avek bann Manm pou dir si zot lev zot lanmen zot bezwen annan en lamannman pou propoze.

Parske i pa letan deba, parske menm si nou fer en deba e nou pa kapab amann nanryen dan sa Lalwa le nou pa’n fer progre.  Nou zis perdi letan e nou pas Lalwa.  Parske si nou ti annan bann propozisyon ki sibstansyel serye.  I ti’n devret ganny soumet atraver Clerk avek son notis 72er.  Mon annan zis Onorab Ferrari ki mon’n resevwar pou Onorab Ramkalawan.  Larestan lamannman ki devan nou se lamannman ki’n deza ganny sirkile, e ki Lasanble ti’n donn Lotorite avek Bills Committee pou prepare e sa in deza ganny fer i devan nou, savedir sa i en travay Lasanble.  E sa nou pou entertain me selman mon pa pou kapab entertain personn ki pou vin fer komanter sa en lamannman, parske i pa pou aboutir dan nanryen pou zis perdi nou letan.

So mon a demann  Onorab Georges pou silvouple gid nou lo 45 ti napa okenn napa okenn sanzman ki nou pe fer avek 45 apard sa bann ki la,  zis gid nou e nou a kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Speaker efektivman nou amannman in konplet akoz mon krwar ki tou bann Manm in aksepte ki sa de paragraf 5 ek 6 anba  clause 45 i garanti en drwa akse kot sa i ti pe ganny servi, oubyen kot sa pa’n ganny servi oubyen kot napa enn ki i kapab Minister i kapab acquire en morso later e fer sa right of way right of access pou ariv kot pou ariv –lo lans.  E i kapab fer sa pou bann rezon planning oubyen okenn lezot License, ki bezwen ganny donnen anba okenn permi anba okenn lezot Lalwa.  Tel parey renouvelman en License lotel or anything like that.  Alor mon krwar parey in ganny dir sa provizyon i sifizan mon krwar pou satisfer piblik lo sa bann drwa.

Mr Chair nou napa gran keksoz ankor, ziska 50.  E clause 50 i lo konpansasyon.  I annan de landrwa kot nou’n flag, e sa de landrwa i ti pou demann ou plito i ti pou sisit en deba lo eski en propriyeter later i devret ganny en konpansasyon, si swa dan en development plan son use son later i ganny restrikte, par egzanp li i ti krwar i pou kapab fer en lotel epi all of a sudden development plan i dir, non, non sa se en later agrikol, ouswa si son later i ganny designate konman en rezerv oubyen en lot keksoz.

Me letan donnen ki napa okenn propozisyon lamannman nou pa pou kapab fer plis ki soulev sa soulev sa 2 pwen.

E kekfwa zis pou lentere piblik mwan mon krwar personnelman ki i ava kapab annan en claim ki ganny fer si en desizyon Planning i redwir lavaler en later.  E nou kontinyen.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay eski ou annan en lamannman ki ou pe propoze lo seksyon 50?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Wi i pou annan en consequential amendment ki Onorab Ferrari in move.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon ti’n deza enform Chair Bills Committee ki I  am not moving this amendment.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Menm pwen i ganny fer lo size konpansasyon anba clause 53 e ankor enn fwa la i annan zis enn de pti amannman tipografi, nou pas clause 55 Enforcement, Stop notice napa gran napa okenn gran sanzman.  Nou al lo 57 e 58 ankor enn fwa napa lamannman, me bann Manm ava kapab swiv lo zot track version, son original, original wording ti’n ganny propoze ler sa Bill ti ganny ler lamannman sa Bill ti ganny konmanse an 2012.  E sa parey mon dir zis pou lenformasyon nou pa bezwen pas okenn letan lo la Mr Chair.

Mon kontinyen 59 i annan de mo ki’n ganny azoute, sa se Notice of immediate enforcement.  E sa de mo se the development zis pou fer son kontenir son fraz pli kler, ankor en pti lamannman dan heading Sub-Part IV zis avan clause 60.  E menm zafer dan 60(3), 60 paragraf (3) ankor nou’n azout action before a court zis pou fer li pli kler.

E nou ariv lo 61.  Ki pouvwar Lotorite Planning ki i annan pou li pran mezir, enforcement pou li pran mezir enforcement dan en ka kot i irzan, e ler i pa kapab ler i pa kapab servi sa propriyeter later oubyen sa developer avek en notis.

Setadir ki i kapab proceed ex parte.  E sel pwen ki nou pe fer resorti la, se i en mezir drastik ki kapab ganny abize.  Me nou pa pe propoz okenn amannman.  Nou ti anvi zis sinifye sa e anmenn sa latansyon e Minis e Manm Lasanble.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mo ti le zis mon konnen nou’n ariv 61 so si nou ti kapab pause en pti moman.

Nou annan 50, 50 (4) (b), akoz mon krwar nou’n fer bann lamannman konsekan avek Seksyon 37.  Eski nou pa pou bezwen alor, mon konpran ki Onorab Ferrari in dir i pa pe move son lamannman, me ler nou regard lamannman ki nou fer anba seksyon 37, nou’n retir the conditions by the Minister, e sa se bann kondisyon se Lotorite, ki pe mete.

Onorab Georges mon krwar i annan en rethink la ki nou bezwen fer la.  If you go back to your amendment for 37 ou pou remarke pou dir nou’n retir serten pouvwar avek Minis, ki i ti annan oparavan, e ki nou pe redonn li anba seksyon 50 ki, ki petet.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ki seksyon ou lo la?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Seksyon Part V section 50 (4) (b) Mr Chair.  Si ou a note byen any undertaking of the Minister mon pa pou lir the clause akoz mon pa le pran plis letan.

Me nou’n deza fer consequential amendments, nou deza fer lamannman avek 37.  E (4) (b) the whole of section 50 annefe i relate to Part IV ki annan pou fer avek section 37. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Vedir ou pe koz lo en consequential amendment? 

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Wi definitivman.  Akoz vi  nou’n fer sa bann lamannman pou nou retir pouvwar avek Minis avan, nou pe redonn li pouvwar apar.  Annou get byen.  Undertaking of the Minister onm refusal, pa Minis ki pe donn sa refusal la non? Se sa ki nou ti dir non, nou ti dir pu dir Minis akoz avan sa 37 ti lir

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon konpran sa Onorab Pillay.  Selman zis pou klarifikasyon Onorab Georges.  Eski i vedir ki anba 50 (1) kot i mete in this Part, “planning decision” means a refusal of permission under Part IV, or an appeal under section 38.

        Prezan nou tir sa bout. E li  i kapab ‘’subject to conditions by the Minister. ‘’

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Lir 4 osi Mr Chair prezan.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

‘’For the purpose of subsection (2), in determining whether and to what extent –‘’

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

(4) (b) Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

‘’Any undertaking of the Minister, on the refusal of permission to develop the land,

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

So ou kapab aret la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

 … to grant  permission.’’

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ou kapab aret la. So ‘’any undertaking of the Minister Mr Chair’’ i  en undertaking ki i pran anba seksyon 37.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

So lamannman posibleman ki bezwen pase, consequential.  E sa mon a demann gidans Onorab Georges si petet dan sa 50 (1) kot i met ‘’or a grant of permission subject to conditions by the Minister’’ Petet conditions by the Authority under section  37 or an appeal under section 38. 

Petet sa i ava ede, e lo (4) (b) ‘’any undertaking of the Authority on the refusal of permission.’’  Petet zis sa de i ava  met nou annord avek lamannman 37.   Mon  pe zis zis propoze e petet-

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Yes Mr Speaker mon dakor.  It should be  ‘’subject to conditions’’ – ‘’or grant of permission’’ – ‘’subject to conditions by the Authority.’’ 

 

(Off-Mic)

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Sorry. 

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon pa swiv Mr Chair.  Akoz i pa akoz sa lamannman.  Annefe  Minis pa ti zanmen annan Lotorite pou li donn permisyon ‘’subject to conditions’’ anba 37.

I ti annan Lotorite pou li pa donn permisyon, me mon pa krwar ki i ti kapab donn ‘’subject to conditions’’, alor nou lamannman i bezwen al en pti pe pli gran.  Wi selman si nou met ‘’Authority instead of Minister’’ mon krwar sa i ava aprouve akoz Lotorite i annan drwa grant permission subject to condition.  E nou pa bezwen met under section 37, akoz i pa zis anba seksyon 37 ki Lotorite i donn permisyon avek kondisyon. I anba lezot seksyon osi.

Me mon pa krwar ki nou bezwen amann (4) (b), akoz (4) (b) se ‘’undertaking of the Minister, undertaking of the Minister to grant of permission for any other development of land’’ ok, ‘’Authority’’ again. 

        Mon krwar ‘Authority’ dan tou lede landrwa.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok tre byen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Savedir 50 (1) ranplas Minis par Authority, e 50 (4) (b) ranplas Minister by the Authority.  Ok nou move on.  Nou ti lo 61.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Onorab Georges i ava gid nou.  Vi ki sa i annan pou fer avek konpansasyon.  Me se Gouvernman ki pe ki pou bezwen pey sa konpansasyon en request for konpansasyon, i bezwen vin to sa azan ki reprezant Gouvernman i sa agent ki reprezant Gouvernman dan sa konteks se son Minis.

So ki arive dan konteks la? Onorab Georges i bezwen gid nou la akoz, i annan en mon annan en konsern a ki nou ti pou probableman pa neseser amann 37, akoz 37 ti deza annan deza ase fail-safe, me nou’n fer li prezan nou bezwen reponn sa bann kestyon.  Akoz sa i konsern later en dimoun, e si en dimoun pa kapab devlop son later i bezwen konpansasyon eski i appeal for konpansasyon avek Lotorite? Oubyen pou appeal ek Minis ki Minis napa naryen pou fer avek desizyon ki’n ganny donnen?  Mersi  Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi. Onorab Georges eski i annan en konfli?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon pa swiv Onorab, ki seksyon ou ti pe mansyonnen?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Avek ou permisyon, Mr Chair Part V pou konpansasyon i relate avek bann desizyon ki’n ganny pran anba –

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Zis dir nou ki clause ou pe koz lo la.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Prezan letan ou regard clause Part 50. Ok.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Clause lekel?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Clause 50.  Ok e nou swiv e nou go down to’’ if on a claim made’’ ok – eski sa claim prezan pou ganny fer, mo oule demann Onorab Georges si sa i korek dan tou konteks ozordi, ler sa claim pou konpansasyon i ganny fer, eski i ganny fer avek Lotorite Plan  oubyen i devret ganny fer avek Gouvernman which in this case represented by the Minister? Mersi.  And that’s why the Minister was included dan sa clause.  Mon pa konnen –  mwan mon pe zis seek  gidans pou nou fer sir sa ki nou pe fer i byen.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi i Gouvernman.  Dan 50 paragraf (2) i dir ‘’the Government shall pay compensation.’’ 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Government.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

E si sa claim i ganny address avek Minis, Minis i ava entertain sa claim konman en claim for compensation ki konpletman diferan avek okenn diskresyon ki i ti ava annan, pou li donn permisyon.  Sa se permisyon in ganny refize, oubyen in ganny donnen subject to conditions ar Lotorite.  Minis prezan i pe konsider sa on behalf of Gouvernman pou gete ki valer sa konpansasyon i devret ete mon krwar i toutafe normal pou Minis fer li or depi lefe ki i pa’n pran okenn desizyon pou li refiz permisyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mon pa le pran letan Lasanble me selman nou bezwen ganny li byen akoz i konsern byen dimoun, e problenm ki eleve la Onorab Georges – si ou swiv mwan se ki si ou annan dan sa konteks pou  ka (4) (b) i dir ou en ‘’grant of permission by the Minister’’ ki nou’n tire oparavan, ti ava pran an konsiderasyon.  Me la sa dimoun napa de, de lesans la.  i zis Lotorite ki pe fer desizyon, e Minis pa kapab rantre ladan akoz sa i relate to i pa kapab servi son later dan en lentere nasyonal.  Ki i ti desizyon Minis avan relasyon avek lentere Nasyonal.

So ki mon pe demann ou prezan.  Vi ki sa dimoun napa en grant of permission ki Minis in kapab donnen an epi sa ki Lotorite in deside, ki rekour sa dimoun pou annan?  Eski nou bezwen prezan enkli ki sa grant permission i bezwen ganny subject to an appeal, to the Appeals Board or not? 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Pa neseserman Minis akoz pa neseserman Mr Chair.  Akoz desizyon pou pa donn planning permission oubyen pou donn planning permission avek kondisyon, i ganny pran anba en dimoun.  Ki swa Minis ki swa Lotorite.  E la i nepli Minis ozordi.  Me i ganny pran par en dimoun.

Konpansasyon i atas avek the refusal to give permission oubyen the grant of permission with conditions.  Irrespective of sa dimoun ki’n pran sa desizyon. I ganny antase avek sa desizyon li menm non pa sa dimoun ki pran sa desizyon.

E se pou sa rezon claim i al kot Gouvernman.  Akoz se Gouvernman ki ansarz Minis e Planning Authority. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, mwan pou mwan dan mon lespri i kler.  Onorab Ghislain.  Ou annan en lamannman pou propoze lo la?

 

HON CHANTAL GHISLAIN

Non mon pe sey konpran en keksoz Mr Speaker.  Ler nou ti amann konpozisyon Board, nou ti met bann dimoun prive ladan, bann lezot dimoun.

But how come prezan desizyon ki bann lezot dimoun prive i pran lo en Board, e se ki Minis ki pou responsab pou al pey konpansasyon?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Pou mon i tre senp.  Sa sete en Lorganizasyon Gouvernmantal.  Se statutory body of the Government.  Gouvernman i servi dimoun prive lo Board. Se sa ki Lasanble in tonm dakor in fini nou pa pe al debat sa ankor la nou.  So nou pa kapab ouver sa ankor.

 

HON CHANTAL GHISLAIN

Ok. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Lasanble ki pran en vot, Lasanble ki deside se Lasanble.  Non nou pa pou al ladan.  Annou kontinyen si sa i en mon krwar i kler lo la.  So 50 nou pa ti ankor pran en vot lo 50 (1) avek 50 (4) (b).  Eski nou devret pran en vot at this stage?  So ki nou pe propoze mon a les  Onorab Georges zis met ou mic on Onorab Ferrari zis met ou mic.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Nou pe propoz dan seksyon 50 (1) i annan 50 (4) (b) the word Minister is replace by Authority. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Mosyon i ganny segonde.  Onorab Andre i segonde. . Nou pou pran en vot lo sa lamannman anba 50 (1) avek 50.  Mr Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi mon ti’n mon ti’n osi demande pou delete seksyon 37  akoz si nou regard byen ti annan anba seksyon 37 avan ki i ti.  Ganny amande, Minis ti kapab anfen mon krwar pa si Minis i kapab dir nou dizon Minis i kapab enpoz kondisyon.  Me anba 35 Lotorite i kapab osi enpoz kondisyon 35 (2) (a) ‘’grant the permission, with or without conditions.’’ Si nou met zis 37 la, i pa pou fer sans akoz konpansasyon i kapab vin akoz Lotorite osi i met kondisyon.

Alor mwan mon ti pe propoze ki nou tir seksyon 37 ‘’or appeal under’’ section 38.  Zis  –

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Full stop i vin after Authority?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

After Authority. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok kler.  Ou annan en lamannman Onorab Pillay ?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

This is a substantial amendment.  This is a substantial amendment and i pa’n pas anba       which is 72 hours.

Akoz 37 i bann conditions relating to national interest, savedir ou pe dir mwan mon later pa kapab ganny devlope dan lentere Nasyonal which include public welfare, safety sekirite eksetera.

This is what section 37 is about.  Ou pa kapab write out section 37 an relasyon ek mon ek konpansasyon e zis enkli sa ki Lotorite pou fer anba 35.

The only person ki ti annan vi ki ou’n donn Lotorite pouvwar anba 37 ou pou kapab prezante tir 37 la.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me selman it’s a consequential amendment of en lamannman ki’n ganny propoze deza so mon pa vwar okenn difikilte avek sa.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

It is substantial.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

It is substantial but it is follows i bezwen annan consequential amendments to it.  Ou bezwen sansan i pou conflicts. 

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

You need 72hrs to move such a substantial amendment.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair, Onorab montre mon anba 37 kote Minis i kapab donn kondisyon.  That’s the problem!  I pa la.  There is nothing in 37 ki dir Minis i kapab grant permission.  So therefore i pa fer okenn diferans 37 in ale or not!  Akoz i pa zanmen ti la, sa permisyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon konpran ki Onorab GeorgeS pe, dir. Me selman si Onorab Georges i lir 37 (2), 37 (2) i kler.  I dir ou ‘’the Minister may give directions to the Authority requiring that any application made to the Authority’’ an relasyon ek permisyon e i donn Oubann, bann keksoz ki reel.

        Ok now, prezan i kontinyen li, i dir ou at the back ki li osi i dir ou pou dir Minis i ava appoint en dimoun, e ‘’this is where the conditions are created’’ – this where the conditions are created Onorab Georges – either ou sa ki ou’n fer se ki ou’n swiv Onorab Ferrari write out the Minister, in a clause where the Minister should have the power, akoz sa i fer li liable anba 50 prezan, and it makes the Government liable and it holds somebody to account for a decision.  Zot anvi hold a Board to account, so a Board which is appointed from the private sector to account for the Government to account for      private sector is done. 

        So sa i zot desizyon Mr Chair.  If you feel that we move forward this way then the decision is yours.  That is my concern.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mwan mon santi ki consequential amendment ki nou bezwen fer consequential ki’n deza ganny notis in the first place of the first amendment mon pa santi annan nanryen mal ladan.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

In fact Mr Speaker, e propozisyon ki Onorab Georges pe fer ‘’subject to conditions by the Authority’’ pe provide si fason ki Onorab Pillay i lir i annan bann kondisyon ki ganny donnen anba seksyon 37 i permet anba seksyon 35 seksyon 37, seksyon 38 i pa restrict nanryen – i pa restrict nanryen.  Mwan mon krwar ki Onorab Pillay i senpleman i annan i pe lager avek en nanm!  I pe lager avek sa problenm kot nou, nou pe dir donn en pe plis pouvwar Planning Authority e en pe mwens pouvwar Minis.

E sa i vin en obsesyon avek li i pa kapab give up.  So Mr Speaker Onorab Pillay in koze, mwan mon pe fer mon pwen mon ti a kontan ki nou move e nou pran en vot.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mean mon krwar Onorab Georges, zis tenny ou mic Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Les mwan fer sa propozisyon swivan kekfwa nou ava ganny konsansis Mr Chair, ki nou amann seksyon 50 (1) parey Onorab Pillay pe demande pou nou dir ‘’subject to conditions by the Authority or the Appeals Board.’’  E nou pa bezwen al dan seksyon, akoz i annan zis 2Lotorite ki kapab donn permisyon avek kondisyon enn se Planning Authority lot Appeals Board. 

Enn anba 35 enn anba 38 akoz anba 38 Appeals Board i kapab substitute son desizyon pou desizyon Planning Authority, donk i kapab ipso facto met kondisyon.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski sa Mosyon i ganny segonde?  Onorab Andre ou segonde?  Ok nou pou pran en vot lo 50(1) parey Onorab Georges in propoze.  Tou Manm an faver? Okenn Manm ki kont?  Deputy Clerk, ou a donn nou count. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon’n rikord 13 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 6 ki’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Alors 50 (1) i ganny amande e i pas parey i ganny propoze par Onorab Georges.

Eski nou al lo 50 (4) pou nou fer sa lamannman ki  nou sanz Minister pou vin Lotorite.  Eski nou kapab ganny propozisyon from the floor?  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mr Speaker nou lo 50 (4) (b) is that right? Ok dan 50 (4) (b) pou ranplas mo ‘‘Minister’’ par ‘’Authority.’’  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ganny segonde.  Okenn Manm i segonde?  Onorab Henrie.  Mersi.

Alor tou Manm ki an faver sa amannman lo 50(4) (b) lev zot lanmen? Okenn Manm ki kont?  Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair. Mon’n rikord 13 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 8 ki’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi savedir sa lamannman anba 50 (4) (b) i pase as amended. 

        Nou ti’n ariv lo 60, Onorab Georges ou a gid nou.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair nou ti’n ariv 51 mon krwar non?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Ok sorry mon an retar. Enforcement nou ti’n fer ou annan rezon Mr Chair.

Wi e mon ti pe dir 58 ti annan en pti 59 nou ti’n fini 61.  61 nou ti’n flag up zis pou dir si amezir drastik me nou p pe propoz lo okenn lamannman.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir nou kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Lezot lamannman se bann pti lamannman tipografi oubyen   stylistic.  Napa nanryen 64, 65, 66, napa nanryen konsekan e nou ale menm 68 apre nou ariv 69 ‘Offences and Penalties.’ 

        Ankor enn fwa si i annan okenn lamannman se bann pti amannman tipografi 73 napa nanryen, 74, 75, 76 napa nanryen.  E nou ariv.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En pti moman Mr Victor Pool.

 

SENIOR LEGAL DRAFTSPERSON MR VICTOR POOL

Thank you Mr Speaker.  Mon ti e get pou seksyon ‘Offences and Penalties’, swa nou kapab met li la swa nou kapab poz li dan regulation, kot nou kapab koz for fines and penalties by way for regulations. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ki seksyon nou ete?

 

SENIOR LEGAL DRAFTSPERSON MR VICTOR POOL

Swa nou kapab met li dan Offences and Penalties en general section la kot nou dir ki selman i ti a pli bon nou met li dan regulation pli tar.  Kot nou kapab impose for provide for the position of fines and penalties. 

        Akoz ou pa vwar en general section ki pe provide dan 69 ki pe dir okenn regilasyon ki kapab ganny fer, nou kapab impose fine and penalties – ok. 

Akoz en fason pou nou impose regilasyon se ki nou osi provide for regulation for imposition of fines and penalties.

        So swa nou attend to it dan seksyon 69 an montan or nou insert li at in regulation pli tar.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Konmsi ou pe propoz delete 69?

 

SENIOR LEGAL DRAFTSPERSON MR VICTOR POOL

Non, non nou proposed to insert en provizyon ki provide ki nou kapab impose fines and penalties, by way of regulation.  Ok? 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Savedir original Bill pa’n vin avek sa provizyon?  Eski nou bezwen sa provizyon oubyen nou kapab proceed without? 

        Si i absoliman neseser, nou pe fer Lalwa.  E the legal draftsperson i santi pou dir i pa absoliman neseser si non i pou mal, nou kapab permet ?  Onorab Georges ou annan okenn -?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mon pe zis lir bann mon pe zis lir clause 78 ki i en long clause, e mon mazinen ki meyer landrwa se pou met li anba 78 (2) (u) kot i met ‘’fees and charges to be payable’’ sa se under this Act, nou fer li swiv par en nouvo (v) e (v) i a vin (w) – (v) i a vin ‘’for the imposition of fines and penalties;’’  Si sa semicolon epi actual (v) i a vin (u). Si Minis i dakor, nou kapab fer sa lamannman.  E sa i donn permisyon sa i ava donn pouvwar Minis pou li menm fer en regilasyon en S.I pou impose fines and penalties an adisyon avek fees ki bezwen ganny peye.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  so eski nou pran alor nu a pran sa konman en propozisyon Onorab Georges ou azout anba  78 (1) en nouvo (v)e-.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

The imposition of fines and penalties;

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

The imposition of fines and penalties;

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Semicolon. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Semicolon eski nou kapab e (v) i vin.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

(v) i vin (u). 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

(v) i vin (w). 

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Sorry (v) i vin (w). 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok so eski i kapab ganny sa propozisyon i kapab ganny segonde.  Onorab Arissol i segonde.

Tou Manm ki an faver ladisyon en nouvo (v) e (v) i vin (w) parey in ganny propoze lev zot lanmen?  Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Madanm Deputy Clerk ou a donn count.  Onorab Georges.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  22 Manm in vot an faver e personn pa’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

22 Manm in vot an faver, personn kont, savedir adisyon (v) i akseptab e i ganny pase.  Onorab Georges nou kontinyen.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Finalman nou kontinyen Mr Chair, dernyen keksoz pou nou ozordi se 78 (2) (k), 78 (2 (k).

Nou ti’n fer en pti komanter la pou nou ganny klarifikasyon lo kisisa ki sa provizyon pe vreman dir. Mon ava sey met li  Board.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Konmsi ki nou le dir par process of public consultation in relation to operations or uses or developments;.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi the process of public consultation in relation to operations or uses or developments;

        What is the intent?  Nou Bills Committee nou pa’n kapab ariv a en konklizyon lo a.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski panel i kapab ed nou pou konpran sa sou clause? 

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon ti anvi zis demann Onorab Georges sa enn (j) small, limited or minor developments; si ou convert en bazar fer li vin en laboutik, apre ou lwe avek en Indien.  Ou krwar i en bon keksoz?  I devret la li?  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ou pa pe propoz lanmann sa ou?  Ou pa pe propoz amann sa ?

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon pe propoz Leta i pran aksyon ler keksoz koumsa i arive !  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mon ava esper panel.  Minis.

 

MINISTER PAMELA CHARLETTE

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker sa i process of public consultation in relation to land use developing the land use plan.  Plus development plan tou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski i ede Onorab Georges pou mye sitye li.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Wi  if that’s the case Mr Chair, mon krwar nou devret dir li.  Say it in so many words the process of public consultation in relation to the preparation of land use plans par egzanp.  Or in relation to the use operations or development of land en keksoz koumsa.

E si nou anvi gard sa 3 mo ‘operations,’ ‘uses’ or ‘developments.’

        Nou a dir ‘’the process of public consultation in relation to in relation to operations uses or development of land.’’

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Development of land, ok.  Sa se en propozisyon.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair me selman Onorab Georges petet nou bezwen regard seksyon 33 ki donn definisyon ‘devlopman’.

Seksyon 33 ki donn definisyon  devlopman e seksyon 33 i nou pe pran consultation la i pou i pou enkli tou sa ki tonm anba devlopman.

Petet menm si Minis pe dir development plan, mon krwar sa ki nou bezwen kler la se ki whether nou mean devlopman in the sense of what it is written in the Law.  I enkli plan devlopman lakaz, konstriksyon miray, gronny, tunnel, you name it.

        Tousala i kouver anba seksyon 33.  So eski sa ki zot pe sey dir?  E prezan ler mon la Mr Chair mon ti a kontan osi nou reflekte nou lefe ki lamannman propoze par Leader Lopozisyon ki demann sa referral of laplikasyon dan bann distrik, i dir in a manner that you may be prescribed. 

        So la osi prezan pou bezwen annan en consequential amendment.  Mon pa  vwar zot in propoz sa lamannman consequential pou prescribe sa manner in which this   should be done. 

        Lamannman propoze par zot kote,  ki zot in propoze, zot in dir pou dir nou bezwen met dan distrik dan en fason that should be prescribe.  Sa osi i bezwen ganny enkli la.  Dan sa seksyon ki la.  Akoz la in koz lo public consultation in relation to operation or uses or developments;

Eski i ase pou kouver sa bout, ki nou’n koz lo la, an se ki konsern fer piblik konn sa bann plan, eksetera ki nou’n koz lo la?    In this case then nou devret les li parey i ete?

Akoz development then pou annan meaning as is referred to under section 33.  Petet nou bezwen get sa.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Gorges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Akoz nou pa zis dir ok akoz sa i en S.I ki Minis pou fer, process of public consultation under this Act.  Sa i kouver tou, tou konsiltasyon piblik ki kapab ganny fer anba sa Lalwa.  For development plans, for the – nenport kwa.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon krwar i fer bokou plis sans.  Eski sa i kapab eski nou kapab ganny en dimoun pou segonn sa propozisyon ?  Onorab Arissol i segonde. Onorab zis pou ed nou zis lir sa lamannman anba ki.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Lamannman 78 (2) (k) i ava lir koumsa ‘’the process of public consultation under this Act.’’ 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Tou Manm ki an faver sa lamannman lev zot lanmen, okenn Manm ki kont ?  Deputy Clerk.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair, 16 Manm in vot an faver e personn pa’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

16 Manm an faver, personn kont, savedir lamannman anba (k) i pase.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi, dernyen presizyon prezan, eski nou devret annan anba seksyon definisyon prezan for public consultation?  Vi ki nou’n enkli serten eleman spesifik an se ki konsern konsiltasyon piblik, e si nou les li ouver sa konsiltasyon par egzanp ki konsern mwan mon pe well ou, ou pe devlop ou propriyete mon reste obor ou e mon anvi fer en lobzeksyon mon kapab zis fer en lobzeksyon ziska vitam aeternam.   

Eski sa i kouver sa eski sa i annan ase fail-safe ladan pou anpese ki mon vexatiously   anpes ou kapab devlop ou propriyete, akoz mon pa byen ek ou, mon pa dakor avek ou.  Petet si nou ti kapab reponn sa.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

I ava depan lo sa ki Minis i mete dan son S.I si Minis i dir ki bezwen annan konsiltasyon piblik pou tou planning application ganny fer, that’s how it is.

        Sa sel keksoz ki pe fer la se nou pe donn Minis en pouvwar pou li fer en S.I, ki ava reglemant lafason dan konsiltasyon pou ganny fer avek piblik. E that’s in son diskresyon subject to validation par sa Lasanble.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Annou kontinyen, nou’n ariv.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Nou’n fini Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Nou’n fini?  79 ok bon be, eski i reste Onorab Pillay se vedir i reste ankor lezot lamannman non?

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Non ti annan zis Onorab Pillay ti pe fer nou mazinen ki 36 mon krwar nou’n fini ganny Lotorite Lasanble, pou nou amann sa konsilte avek Attorney General Chambers e Minis.  E en fwa ki nou’n tonm dakor i ava ganny i ava antre dan white copy pou sinyatir.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok mersi Onorab Georges.  Bon. Nou’n ariv en staz kot nou’n propoz serten lamannman ki nou’n deza vot lo la.  Me selman i annan tou lezot lamannman ki’n ganny propoze par Bills Committee ki nou pa ankor vot lo la.  Me ki ganny konteni dan sa dokiman Physical Planning Bill 2019 avek track changes ki’n ganny sirkile kot tou Manm.

Alor mon ti a propoze sof pou sa bann ki nou’n deza amande ki rikord i kler lo la, ki nou pran en vot ki nou pe dakor avek sa bann lamannman. E answit anba seksyon 36 ki nou pe kit sa a diskresyon Bills Committee of Onorab Georges pou li propoz bann lamannman selo diskisyon ki’n arive dan Lasanble.  Alor tou Manm ki an faver bann lezot ki bann minor and typos.  Me avan nou al lo la Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair, Mr Chair nou, nou ti’n napa problenm avek serten provizyon lamannman ki ti’n ganny propoze.

Me i annan serten provizyon lamannman ki’n radikalman sanz konpleksite sa Lalwa, e fer sa Lalwa vin en Lalwa ki konpletman diferan avek Lalwa antisipe orizinalman.

Me mwan mon pe kominike ki baze lo la mon pa pou vot an faver sa Lalwa as it is now.  Malgre i annan serten provizyon lamannman ki mo dakor avek parey anba seksyon 11 kot dimoun i ganny enformen.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Sa i kler si mon bezwen les tou dimoun vin dir akoz zot in vote, then mon krwar nou pa pe fer lenzistis nou pa fer lenzistis lo ek tou bann Manm.

So i e komanter i en pti pe i en pti pe initil a sa staz.  Tou Manm ki an faver bann lamannman parey nou propoze silvouple lev zot lanmen?  Okenn Manm ki kont? Ok Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair mon’n rikord 14 Manm ki’n vot an faver e personn pa’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

14 Manm in vot an faver personn kont, savedir the Physical Planning Bill 2019 nou’n ariv staz ki nou’n pran vot e mon pou demann en Mosyon from LGB for a Third Reading.  Me selman zis avan nou ale si mon kapab demann Serzan pou retourn nou dan Lasanble.  Mersi mon kapab demann Leader Government Business pou en Mosyon for Third Reading.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker under Order 71 (1) nou Standing Order mon oule move ki the Physical Planning Bill 2019 Bill No.7 of 2019 as amended   being moved at   that time.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi eski Mosyon i ganny segonde?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Definetly Mr Speaker, Mosyon i ganny segonde.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi eski nou kapab pran en vot lo sa Mosyon for Third Reading.  Tou Manm ki an faver? Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count.  En pti moman.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair, 14 Manm in vot an faver e enn in vot kont. Mersi.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski nou’n kont 14 ki’n vot an faver oubyen 15?  Annou refer, nou bezwen refer zis pou fer sir akoz Manm in challenge sa.

Tou Manm ki an faver sa Mosyon for Third Reading, eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Deputy Clerk ou a don nou count. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Chair, 15 Manm in vot an faver e enn in vot kont. Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi savedir nou’n aprouv sa Bill as amended lo en vot 15 lo 1.  Mon a demann Deputy Clerk pou fer en Formal Third Reading. 

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  This Act may be cited as the Physical Planning Act 2019 and shall come into operation of such date as the Minister may by notice published in the Gazette appoint.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Deputy Clerk.  Bon sa i anmenn nou a lafen nou travay lo Physical Planning Bill Second Reading. 

        Lo nou Order Paper, nou ti deza annan lezot travay ki enkli Seychelles Fire and Rescue Services Agency, update lo Public Service Salary (Amendment) Bill e plizyer Mosyon.

Me i kler ki la in ariv 4:50 i reste nou 10 minit pou 5er e 10 minit pou moman ki Lasanble i osi pou al dan recess ziska nou pou repran le 10 Septanm.

So zis avan nou al pli lwen.  Onorab De Commarmond ou ti le dir en parol?

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Speaker mon ti le zis remind ou ki mon annan en Mosyon pou withdraw the Motion. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me dan sa ka mon pou bezwen skip Seychelles Fire and Rescue Services Agency, parske li osi i lo la.

Mon napa problenm pou skip sa dan labsans the Minister responsible, me selman avan nou fer sa,  Les mon ava eskiz Minis Pamela Charlette e son delegasyon ki enkli Mr François, Mr Biscornet, Mr Hoareau e Mr Pool.  Mon ti a kontan remersye zot ki zot in avek nou e pou zot letan.  E nou swet zot en bonnfen kontinyasyon.

 

(MINISTER CHARLETTE AND HER DELEGATION WAS EXCUSED FROM THE HOUSE)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon vi ki mon pou nou ava al mon a skip sa 2enm Second Reading e nou ava a direk lo Mosyon, parske mon krwar sa i pou kourt.  E mon a permet ou prezant ou withdrawal parey ou ti’n ekrir Speaker.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Thank you Mr Speaker.  Annakor avek Order 44 (2) nou Standing Order mon oule move ki pou withdraw sa Mosyon ki lir koumsa;

‘That this Assembly approves the appointment by the President of Mr Patrick Andrea Victor as an Ambassador-at-Large of the Republic of Seychelles in accordance with Article 64(1) of the Constitution’.  Mr Speaker I beg to move. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi, mersi Onorab eski Mosyon i ganny segonde?

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Speaker, Mosyon i ganny segonde.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Mosyon i ganny segonde.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mr Speaker may I address out of this Motion?  Mon vreman dezapwente vwar ki pe arive la. E mon pa kapab pa konsider sa konman en keksoz ki ti zis en zwe, e ki dan mon lopinyon dan nou lopinyon isi lo sa kote ti en zwe pou servi en dimoun i en artis ki byen rekonnet, pou en zwe politik.  Nou’n ofer, (les mwan koze silvouple)  nou’n ofer en bon pe travay konsiltasyon – nou’n ofer avek Gouvernman plizyer laveni, plizyer semen, plizyer prosedir pou zot kapab donn sa remersiman Mr Patrick Victor parey nou Lasanble antye ti ‘swete. Nou’n rankontre dan Komite nou’n rankontre avek bann Manm responsab Minister Kiltir, Minister Zafer Etranzer, nou’n fer nou kontribisyon.

E depi en pe letan nou pe esper en lapros rezonnab, en lapros ki montre respe pou sa dimoun ki ti ganny nonmen pou sa post, nou pa’n vwar nanryen e la ozordi nou vwar sa demann pe ganny retire, mon santi Mr Speaker ;–

(1) ki in en labi bann prosedir nou Lasanble.  E

2) in en zwe politik i sa msye, Patrick Victor pa ti merite pas ladan.  E mon swete ki Gouvernman i trouv le mwayen pou donn rekonesans parey sa msye i merite, pou tou sa ki in fer pou Sesel akoz i pa zoli konmsi ki mannyer tousala in fini, e mon regrete, e mon demann Lasanble, pou kondann sa zwe politik.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Onorab Pillay.

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr. Speaker i sagrinan sa ki mon fek sa ki mon fek  tande i sagrinan, akoz si i annan en dimoun ki zwe politik avek sa size se li menm Onorab Ferrari!

E dan son atraver ou Mr Speaker dan son lentervansyon, annefe sa ti en size ki ti’n kapab pas devan nou Lasanble akoz nou tou nou ti’n realiz lenportans sa personnalite pou nou pei.

Me apre ki ou personnelman  e bokou bann lezot koleg in met plizyer, plizyer bayer dan semen Gouvernman, mon krwar Gouvernman i bezwen anmenn serten finalite avek en sityasyon !

E mwan mon kondann lafason ki zot, zot in reakte anver sa propozisyon lapwentman in the first place! 

So mon krwar sa ki reste devan nou pou nou fer se ki nou’n vin avek en Mosyon pou nou anmenn finalite a en keksoz ki pe kontinyen langi lo nou Order Paper pe ale/vini – pe ale/vini.  E ki nou, nou reste firm dan nou sipor pou Mr Patrick Victor e nou pou reste firm deryer nou sipor pou li, akoz nou santi poudir i annan i en dimoun tre enportan pou kiltir

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

E ki zot menm zot annefe Mr Speaker – zot menm zot dan meeting ki ti ganny fer ki mwan mon ti attend ki IAC ti fer avek, avek Gouvernman, zot ti menm fer propozisyon dan laliny ki sa Mosyon pa reste devan Lasanble !  Sete sa bann propozisyon ki ti ganny fer dan sa laliny i annan bann lezot Manm ki ti attend sa meeting dan sa laliny, zot ti dir rod lezot fason administratif pou reward li !  Sete sa ki zot rapor ti dir.  Rod lezot fason administrativ.

E mon krwar se sa ki Gouvernman mon krwar in pran desizyon pou li fer, e mon kapab i annan zot rapor – zot rapor IAC, rapor IAC.  

E sa ki enportan Mr Speaker pou nou ozordi se ki nou kote nou pa’n vin ek sa Mosyon pou zwe politik avek !  Nou’n vin avek sa Mosyon akoz nou konviksyon sete pou onor e rekonnet travay kapasite en dimoun.

E se zot ozordi pa sey servi sa kart pou zot zwe politik, se zot ki pe zwe politik.

Sa Mosyon in vini la, nou ti kapab pas sa Mosyon san ki nou zwe politik parey zot, zot pe zwe li.

So mon krwar Mr Speaker.  E mon vwar i drol ki mover Mosyon i pa ganny sans eksplik son Mosyon nou al direk lo en entervenan lo lot kote latab.  I en Mosyon ki’n ganny move in ganny segonde e se pou sa prosedir.

E fotespere Mr Speaker dan lefitir kot i ava annan lezot dimoun, e mon krwar Gouvernman i ava bezwen fer serten travay pou li etablir en kad letour sa apwentman Ambassador-at-Large osi pou ki nou kapab bouz devan avek sa size.  Mwan mon reste en firm siporter Mr Patrick Victor.  E a tou moman mon pou donn li mon sipor dan son karyer kot whoever ki nou kapab onor li.  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon zis pou mon klersi an term prosedir ler en Manm i move en Mosyon, normalman i move son Mosyon i kapab entervenir toudswit, e answit apre i ganny segonde.  Li in prezant son Mosyon i pa’n entervenir i pa’n demann mon permisyon pou li entervenir.  So mon’n kit li koumsa.  So mon pa’n anpes li entervenir, sa mon fer sa kler mon pa’n anpes personn entervenir lo la, me selman nou annan en kontrent letan e i pros 5er e pou sa rezon ki mon pe permet de lentervansyon lo sak kote.  Si oule dir keksoz mon ava permet ou Onorab De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker ordinerman lo en Mosyon koumsa nou pa entervenir zis nou pas a vot.  E nou soz.

Me selman vi ki ou’n les entervenir so mon dir de pti mo lo la, pou met keksoz an perspektiv.

Mr Speaker sa Mosyon letan ti ganny mete devan nou Lasanble, ti ganny mete an bonn fwa e avek tou bon lentansyon pou fer sir ki Mr Patrick Andrea Victor i ganny sa rekonesans ki Leta Seselwa atraver nou Prezidan Larepiblik ti’n anvi pou donn li.

E tou letan mon ti’n swiv dan mon zournal, dan social media everywhere lo kote Minister Lakiltir tou sa, ti’n vreman annan tou sa sipor pou Mr Patrick Victor.  Eksepte ki sa ler ti ganny dir ki sa i bezwen ganny diskite IAC i bezwen rantre ladan.  E bann diskisyon in ale.

E mwan mon’n dan sa bann diskisyon.  E parmi dan sa bann diskisyon e konsiltasyon sete propozisyon pou retir sa Mosyon e demann Prezidan pou revwar konman pou onor Patrick Victor Mr Patrick Victor.

E avek sa bann rekomandasyon bann diferan meeting e konsiltasyon ki’n ganny fer nou pe retir sa Mosyon !  Me mon le donn en garanti lepep Seselwa.  Mon le don en garanti sa Lasanble Nasyonal ki Mr Patrick Andrea Victor pou gannyen son rekonesans ki i merite! Pa bezwen trakase.

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Ok? Me sa zwe politik ki’n ganny zwe par lopozisyon kont Mr Victor – Mr Victor will take serious note.  E mon swete bann artis an zeneral dan nou pei i pran serious note of sa ki’n arive dan nou Lasanble atraver enn zot koleg!  Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab De Commarmond. Onorab Sandy Arissol.

 

HON SANDY ARISSOL

Mr Speaker mersi, mon ti a kontan dir de pti parol mon osi an relasyon avek sa.  Ou konnen letan nou ti koze lo sa kote latab e mon rapel tre byen Leader Lopozisyon Onorab Ramkalawan ti fer kler ti dir nou lo sa kote latab, nou napa okenn problenm avek Patrick Victor nou!

E i ti menm montre pou dir ki lanmitye i annan avek Patrick Victor.  E sa ki Onorab Pillay in dir i konpletman diferan.  Napa nou lo sa kote latab ki ti mal parl oubyen mal koz Patrick Victor ! Senpleman nou ti endik bann lankadreman ki i sipoze tonm anba la ki pa tro kler.   Sa ki nou ti dir.   E sa i bezwen reste.

E pa bliye zot ti pe propoz Patrick Victor san konsilte bann artis laba deor, sa i en lot keksoz fodre piblik i konnen, e sa i enportan.

Me le pwen i reste Mr Speaker,  mon rapel tre byen.  I annan en Onorab Ghislain ti fer en keksoz kler dan sa Lasanble ti remind nou en keksoz, e mon lir, sa ki i ti dir dan verbatim;

‘’Mon lapel final avek nou Lasanble, pou ki personn pa rod leskiz e rezon pou vot kont donn pouvwar lepep Seselwa.  Oubyen servi delaying tactics pou defer sa size pou leternite ! Oubyen vote pou aret deba lo sa size.  Akoz tousala Mr Speaker lepep pe kontinyen note!‘’

Mon pwen lo la Mr Speaker la ozordi letan Lasanble pe al recess nou pou gete lekel bann ki pou vot kont pou donn pouvwar lepep Seselwa, lekel bann ki pou servi delaying tactics pou defer sa size pou leternite.  Nou pou gete bann ki pou vote pou aret deba lo sa size pou ki Mr Patrick Victor i ganny retire dan sa ki nou pe koze !  La aswar nou pou vwar sa Mr Speaker !

Alor annou pran en vot pou nou gete bann zot isi dan sa Lasanble ki fran ek zot lekor e ki konnen ki zot dir dan sa Lasanble Nasyonal !  Mersi bokou Mr Speaker.

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Arissol. Bon in ariv 5.03 nou pou bezwen pran en vot lo sa Mosyon.  Mon a donn ou Right of Reply. 

 

(Off-Mic)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non mon pe pran zis dernyen entervenan lo sak kote mon ti’n non, non i pa’n dir nanryen ki pa korek.  Right of Reply Onorab De Commarmond.

 

(Interruption)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab De Commarmond ou annan laparol.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker si dan rekomandasyon travay Komite ki ti’n ganny fer, ti dir klerman annou vot lo sa Mosyon then vot ti ava’n pase, si zot le,  mon retir sa ki mon  pe propoze e nou vot lo sa Mosyon!

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

I challenge this Assembly. I challenge this Assembly to do it. 

 

(Interruption)

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Ok si nou tonm dakor lo la, mon napa problenm deswit la Mr Speaker mon withdraw sa ki mon’n mete, mon demande ki vot i ganny fer lo sa Mosyon as is. 

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Les mon donn zot en gidans.  Ler ou donn en Mosyon, ou kapab withdraw ou Mosyon.  Me ler ou withdraw en Mosyon if it is moved and gives instructions to this effect to the Clerk. 

        Nou pa kapab vin zwe bann zwe, met en Mosyon withdraw ler ou met Mosyon pou withdraw ou pa withdraw sa i en zwe sa!

Mon pa pou aksepte sa Mosyon for withdrawal parske i al kont Standing Orders 41(1). 

 

(APPLAUSE)

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Kont! Kont. So sa ou pa kapab fer.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi.  Mersi Mr Speaker.  Alor i kler ki mon Mosyon i an relasyon avek rapor ki Komite in ganny fer e ki nou bezwen retire sa Mosyon devan Lasanble parey Komite in sizere.  E alor la parey mon’n dir Mr Victor i a ganny son rekonesans.  Pa bezwen trakase ! 

Mon demande alor pou nou fini sa Lasanble sa voyaz byen e annou vot lo Mosyon ki devan nou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok,  bon nou’n ariv lafen sa deba.  I annan en Mosyon i’n ganny propoze par Onorab Leader Government Business ki son Mosyon ki ti prezante devan Lasanble i ganny withdrawn.

        e alors tou Manm ki an faver ki sa propozisyon par Leader Government Business i withdraw, sa propozisyon tou Manm an faver lev zot lanmen?

 

(Interruption)

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Zot annan mazorite vot kont!

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Eski i annan okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Deputy Clerk ou a donn nou count. 

 

(Interruption)

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair, mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order!  Annou ekout the count Deputy Clerk silvouple.

 

MADAM DEPUTY CLERK

Mersi Mr Speaker.  Mon’n rikord 10 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 2 ki’n vot kont.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok savedir the Motion pou withdraw the proposal par LGB i ganny aksepte e alor i pase.

Bon e zis detrwa pti lanons avan ki nou al dan recess, zis pou lenformasyon manm piblik Lasanble pou al dan recess ozordi, e nou pou repran travay Mardi le10 Septanm.

E ler nou pou repran travay aktyelman nou pou konmans toudswit avek Civil Code ki pou ale depi le 10 Septanm Mardi, Merkredi, Zedi ek Vandredi.  Sa se pou nou kapab donn otan letan ki nou kapab pou nou deal avek lamannman ki’n ganny propoze par Civil Code.

        Me antretan pou annan lezot travay ki Lasanble atraver bann Komite pou fer pandan sa recess. Par egzanp demen Zedi ler 8 Out 10er bomaten dn Committee room 3 International Affairs Committee pou zwenn avek Gouvernman pou diskit Fisheries Partnership Agreement ek bann negosyasyon.

Sa mon konpran pou live.  Alor tou bann Manm ki santi zot enterese avek sa size i ganny envite pou zot partisipe osi.

Demen osi Zedi le 8 Out 1.30 ankor dan Committee room 3 FPAC pou zwenn avek IMF Regional Technical Assistant Centre, pou Southern Africa ki’n demann en meeting pou zot zwenn avek FPAC Lasanble Nasyonal e sa pou pran apartir 1.30 i pou on kot Lasanble.

Vandredi sa Vandredi le 9 Out 3er apre midi dan lobby pou annan en handing over ceremony ki pe ganny organize konzwentman par Truth Reconciliation and National Unity Commission ek Lasanble Nasyonal lo son Komite Truth Reconciliation and National Unity kot nou pou vwar Chairperson Komite Onorab Ramkalawan i pou handover tou bann dosye ki i annan bann form tou bann lenformasyon konsernan bann konplent ki’n ganny resevwar ki ti ganny anmennen kot Chairperson e i pou handover tou sa bann dokiman avek Chairperson Komisyon ki Mrs Gabrielle Mcintyre.  Sa osi pou vreman mark komansman travay e manda sa Komisyon.

Dernyen item ki mon annan se Vandredi le 23 Out 10.30 dan Committee room 3 pou annan Women Parliamentarian Caucus kot zot pou zwenn avek plizyer parti prenan konsern Breast and Cancer Wellness Campaign 2019.

So vwala en pe bann aktivite ki pou annan pandan recess.  Byensir mon konnen tou bann Manm Lasanble zot, zot pou annan zot travay distrik la parey mon men.  E mon asire zot pou zot pa pou dan en vakans zot pou travay an plis ki travay Komite.

So i reste zis pou mwan lo lapar Lasanble Nasyonal, mon ti a kontan remersi tou bann Manm pou zot partisipasyon aktiv ozordi mon’n vwar ki degre aktiv zot kapab aktiv.  Nou tou nou’n vwar.  E pou zot kontribisyon dan travay Lasanble Nasyonal, depi Kestyon, dan Mosyon, dan fer Lalwa e pou zot devouman ki zot in montre. Mon ti a kontan osi remersye tou bann staff Lasanble Nasyonal sirtou Sekretarya bann ki’n pli pres avek nou menm Clerk, Deputy Clerk tou bann travayer – mon pa le nonm  tou me zot konnen nou Serzan, nou Parliamentary Reporter, nou sekirite Lapolis, tou dimoun ki’n ed nou fer en bon travay dan sa trimes, mon remersi zot bokou.  E mon swet zot tou en bon letan recess – en bon letan travay e ki nou ava zwenn prosennman anba speakership Nicholas Prea konmansman le 10 Septanm 2019.

So lo son lapar osi mon ti  a kontan dir zot tou mersi e nou a revwar le 10 Septanm 2019.

 

(ADJOURNMENT)