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Verbatim – Friday 6th January 2017

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF SEYCHELLES

Friday 6th January,

2017

The Assembly met at 9am

National Anthem

Moment of Reflection

Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair

 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bonzour tou Manm Onorab.  Bonzour Minis avek ou delegasyon.  Sekreter Prensipal Finans avek ou delegasyon.  Bonzour osi tou dimoun ki a lekout, ki pe kontinyen swiv deba lo Bidze 2017.

        Mon annan en kominikasyon ki mon oule fer avek Lasanble.  Apre sityasyon yer e apre bokou refleksyon e bokou bann kontak ki mon’n gannyen yer swar,  mon pe pran sa desizyon swivan.  Ozordi Lasanble pou fer son travay normal ziska 5er diswar.  Lakantite travay ki Lasanble i annan ki reste pou fer ankor vizavi Bidze 2017 napa fason ki nou fini ozordi.  Minister Finans, PS in fini alert mwan ki nou pou posibleman overflow e al dan semenn prosenn.  Lakantite ki reste, ozordi e lafason ki deba pe ale, semenn prosenn nou riske pe vwar nou pe al ankor 2/3 zour.

        Volim travay i kantite. Mon annan Staff ki’n fini fer aplikasyon pou zot pran zot konze anyel depi Desanm ki’n fini ganny aprouve.  Mon annan apepre 10 MNA ki’n fini fer aplikasyon pou zot pran konze, pou  pas en konze avek zot fanmir –  sirtou pandan moman kot zot zanfan i dan vakans lekol.

        Mon Clerk pe absante avek Speaker, pou en vizit ofisyel Westminster semenn prosenn.  Mon Deputy Clerk i lo medical leave.  Mon osi tou santi ki bann Staff SBC zot anba presyon e zot osi tou anvi ganny relieve boner.  E mon ;n konsider plizyer pwen menm vizavi serten paran ki’n port mon latansyon ki zot bann zanfan i dan school holidays e alors zot anvi spend en pe letan normal pandan sa vakans avek zot bann zanfan.

        Lefe ki napa en gran urgency pou nou fini sa deba e lefe ki nou dernyen Sitting Merkredi le 4 Zanvye, Lasanble Nasyonal ti aprouv en Bidze R2.6 bilyon pou Gouvernman kapab fonksyonnen pandan sa prosen 4 mwan,  mon desizyon alor i comme swivan.

        Ozordi nou pou travay ziska 5er e apre 5er nou pou pran Recess.  Lasanble pou re convene le 14 Fevriye avek Ladres Prezidan lo Leta Lanasyon Sesel.  Sa i ava swiv dan bann prosenn zour par repons lo Leta Lanasyon e deswit apre nou ava kontinyen avek deba kot nou’n fini ozordi nou ava kontinyen avek deba lo Bidze.  Vwar la desizyon ki mon’n pran e ki mon’n anvi partaz avek zot bomaten.

        Non, mon pa pe pran okenn deba lo sa desizyon.  Mon’n pran sa desizyon avek tou konsiderasyon.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, mon napa problenm avek ou desizyon mwan.  Be mon anvi dir serten keksoz.  Ou desizyon i ou desizyon sa.  mwan mon anvi dir ou….

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, Onorab.  Wi?

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

After all bonzour.  Bonzour Minis, bonzour tou dimoun.  Mwan mon pe dir ki lo sa kote latab nou pa dakor ek sa desizyon ki ou pe pran.  Nou kont e nou, nou ti ava anvi nou kontinyen travay,  nou fini e nou krwar poudir si Lasanble ti’n byen ganny manage nou travay ti pou’n fini ozordi oubyen menm avan.  E nou krwar poudir ler ou vini avek ou desizyon ki ou pe pran, apre SONA ler ou vini i bon ki ou sanz style management  or Lasanble i sanz son style management lo Bidze, lo bann travay ki annan devan nou.    Epi avan tou.  ABC meeting, pa’n fer.  Sa ki ou pe dir la nou ti’n devret tonm dakor dan ABC meeting.  Yer Onorab Ramkalawan in fek dir, nou’n tonm dakor lo la, la ou repet ankor menm zafer, ou pa ni fer meeting avek nou –  bann Leaders pa ni konnen ki ou pe fer, zis ou vini ou pran en desizyon san konsiltasyon.

        This is wrong e sa direksyon nou Lasanble pe pran is not good pou nou pei.  E mwan mon pe dir sa kalite desizyon ki ou pe pran la pou nou diskit lo Bidze pli tar,  nou pou annan en problenm.  I pou vedir ki napa latransparans, enn e dezyenmman serten gro proze Gouvernman i riske pa konmanse.  I annan en risk la, sa bout larzan ki nou’n donn Gouvernman i reste ki serten gro desizyon i pa ganny pran e lepep Seselwa i ganny afekte par sa.

        So mon ti ava kontan ki ou revwar sa desizyon e nou lo nou kote latab nou pa dakor avek sa desizyon ki ou pe pran.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Zis mon met dan latansyon Lasanble, si i annan okenn kestyon vizavi Lofis Speaker ek Deputy Speaker,  okenn lakizasyon ki zot in fer i annan serten prosedir ki zot bezwen swiv.

        Bon, nou ti agree e nou ti agree through Biro Attorney Zeneral pou lo sa sonm e sa sonm menm ki nou ti dir poudir sa sonm i ava al 1 mwan. 2 mwan,  zot ti agree poudir sa sonm i kapab anmenn Gouvernman pandan 4 mwan ziska Avril ki donn nou letan ziska Avril pou debat sa.

        Nou pa pe al ziska Avril.  Nou pou annan nou en short recess. Ok ?  En recess of apepre 1 mwan, nou re pran.  Nou komans avek louvertir Lasanble par Prezidan Larepiblik e apre sa nou fini Bidze.  E bann Departman, bann Heads ki reste, i pa bann Heads, ki la pour lemoman si nou pa debat zot, ki pou paraliz pei.  Larzan ki’n ganny agree through Minister Finans i en larzan, i en sonm ki pou kapab run Lasanble ziska omwen Avril.  Me nou, nou pe dir li ziska Fevriye.

        So, mon desizyon i reste, nou travay ozordi nou travay normal.  Apre nou antre dan Recess.  Ok ?

        Bon, yer kot nou ti’n arive ti annan Sekreter Prensipal pou Finans ki ti pou donn serten lenformasyon Lasanble e mon ava pas laparol avek PS Finans, PS Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair bann Manm Onorab e tou dimoun ki a lekout, bonzour.  Kestyon ki ti ganny demande yer se konbyen Espace Gouvernman, ki kantite larzan ki Gouvernman in gannyen.  Pou met dan latansyon Lasanble,  Le 8 Zilyet 2008, parcel V16938 ti ganny vann a JJ Spirit Foundation lo en freehold pou lavaler R700 mil pou 4659 met kare.  E dezyenm bout, Parcel V18463, sa i car park, lavaler 2416 met kare.  I annan en let ki Minister Land Use, Lenfrastriktir, Labita avek Transpor in ekrir JJ Spirit Foundation pou ofer zot 2 opsyon.  Sa let ti ganny ekrir an Novanm 2016, ki ti ofer zot 2 opsyon pou sa dezyenm bout carpark.  Either pran en lease pou 60 years pou R205 mil per year ouswa pou aste upfront pou lavaler R3.5 milyon.

        Me letan nou’n koz avek Minister responsab Lenfrastriktir, Labita ek Transpor zot pa ankor ganny en respond back kot JJ Spirit foundation.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS.  Bon okenn kestyon lo deklarasyon PS.  Yes Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Bonzour.  Zis re donn nou sa premye bout please.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Le 8 Zilyet 2008, JJ Spirit Foundation ti aste Parcel 2016938 pou R700 mil lo en freehold pou lavaler 4659 met kare.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Ferrari.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon remersye PS Finans pou son lenformasyon.  Mon remersye bann zofisye Minister Touris ki la parmi nou, ki zot in korpere avek nou dan sa reser lenformasyon.  Mersi bokou.

        Mon ti a kontan met devan Lasanble ki depi ler nou’n komans sa deba yer lo Minister Tourizm in vreman anmenn enormeman kestyon.  Enormeman kestyon sorti e lenformasyon sorti kot piblik ki mwan, koman en reprezantan dan  sa Lasanble mon santi li en devwar, en devwar pou mwan al verifye sa bann lenformasyon dan plis detay.

        Sa bann lenformasyon i konsern Kontra ki Minister Touris in donnen avek serten Lazans PR deor, lorganizasyon Carnaval.  Son bann retonbe, son lefikasite vizavi sa kantite larzan ki pe met ladan.  I annan kestyon ki enorm. E mwan mon ti a zis kontan met devan sa Lasanble ki si nou satisfer nou ki Minister Tourizm avek Lavyasyon Sivil i annan tou bann mwayen pou zot fonksyonnen, normalman parey en Minister i bezwen fonksyonnen e sirtou mon ti a kontan mete ki dan sa demars ki napa okenn prose ki ganny retar, napa okenn travay enportan e sa kekfwa Minis oubyen bann o zofisye ava dir nou, si nou kapab asir nou ki  sa  i le ka –  mwan mon pa sant mwan dan en pozisyon pou mwan vot lo Bidze sa 2 Minister tan ki mon pa’n ganny bann leklersisman ki mon santi i mon devwar pou mwan rode.

        Alors mon ti a kontan an terminen, zis dir poudir si sa Lasanble i pran sa desizyon, pa depan zis lo mwan.  Si sa Lasanble e si Onorab De Commarmond i les mwan terminen e i pran sa desizyon, mon ti a kontan ki piblik i konpran byen ki sa i pa okenn lakizasyon oubyen okenn keksoz negativ lo Minister Tourizm.  Nou rekonnet sa lenportans sa Minister e nou rekonnet travay ki bann zofisye pe fer.  Me selman i senpleman pou nou ed nou pei e pou nou ed sa Minister, sirtou en Minister ki’n fek sanz son Minis e ki annan bann prosedir ki mon santi pe al sanze, ki nou, nou ava akonpanny sa Minister osi lontan ki nou kapab, osi lwen ki nou kapab pou zot kapab fonksyonn byen.

        An realite mon ti a kontan dir ki la nou annan 5an travay ki zot lo lot kote latab, zot pan fer an term oversight lo sa Minister.  Donk sa i mon swe.  Me selman i mon lopinyon,  mon demann e Lasanble i ava deside.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari. Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman, mersi bokou.  Mr Chairman, i kler ki poudir sa lenformasyon ki nou’n gannyen bomaten i sokan.  I sokan e nou koman en Lasanble Nasyonal ki sipoze pe pran swen avek bann byen leta, nou devret soke nou osi.  Nou devret eksprim nou mekontantman ki later ki sipoze pli ser dan Sesel, savedir later konblaz, i ganny fer kado dan lafason ki in ganny fer.  Later dan Victoria i sipoze kout ant R8 mil a R10 mil en met kare.  E sa ki nou’n vwar, Gouvernman in deside pou li vann sa premye bout later ki tonm en arpan pou lavaler R700 mil e sa i tonm R150 en met kare.  Nou ti ava kontan konnen dan Victoria kote en dimoun i kapab aste later R150 en met kare ?  E an plis ki sa nou tou nou konnen ki poudir sa site li menm li i en sight ki annan en valer ekstraordiner akoz i obor lanmer, i annan bann diferan fasilite, plat.  Ou kapab servi li, kapab servi li bout pou bout.

Alor mon krwar ki sa dan li menm li i montre en aksyon iresponsab.  Me selman nou konnen akoz en tel desizyon in ganny pran e sa se pa lot pou rezon politik.

        E Mr Chairman, an plis ki sa si mon ganny byen konpran,  later konblaz i sipoze pa ganny vann lo en baz free hold.  I sipoze lo en baz lease hold.  E sa dan li menm ankor enn fwa i montre ki poudir i annan en dezyenm iregilarite.  I kler ki poudir i annan en gran konfli lentere, akoz JJ Spirit Foundation nou konnen lekel son Patron e sa se Mr James Michel e pou li koman patron JJ Spirit Foundation e Prezidan Larepiblik le 8 Zilyet 2008, pou li les en keksoz koumsa arive, i montre en konfli lentere dan son pli gran ekstrenm posib.  Sa Mr Chair, mon pa pou ezite pou mwan apel li en koripsyon.

(APPLAUSE)

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Sa dezyenm parti Mr Chair, ki ankor enn fwa vreman montre ou ki keksoz i dan en sel dezord.  Sa dezyenm bout later ki pli pti, ki lanmwatye sa enn la premye,  sa enn la premye i 4659 met kare, li i 700 mil.  Sa enn la dezyenm ki 2416 met kare li i pe ganny ofer pou R3.5 milyon ki fer li en pti git pli ser par met kare, pou vin anviron R1400 par met kare.

        Be Mr Chairman, saki nou pe vwar la, prezan nou pe regard Minister Tourizm, lepep Seselwa konmsi in fer kado e nou aprezan lepep Seselwa pe ganny demande pou li trouv R8 milyon tou le z- an pou donn JJ Spirit Foundation.  Sa Mr Chair i totalman pa akseptab.

        Alor i annan detrwa keksoz mon krwar ki bezwen arive avan ki nou aprouv sa Bidze.  Nou krwar ki pandan ki Minister Tourizm pe rod lezot landrwa e mon take note ki poudir zot in dir letan tou dimoun i dan menm landrwa, sa nou rekonnet.  I pli bon letan tou bann Departman i anba en sel roof ki ou kapab fer ou tarvay dan en fason pli efikas.  Sa nou rekonnet.  Me selman an menm tan osi depi ki nou pe diskit Bidze mon anvi dir Minis Loustau-Lalanne avek son delegasyon ki nou’n soke pou nou antann serten Minister en pti bout i isi, en pti bout i laba, en pti bout i en lot landrwa,  me selman zot still pe fonksyonnen.

        Alor premye keksoz ki nou, nou ti ava kontan se ki Gouvernman i trouv sa larzan pou ed Minister Tourizm pou li ganny son prop landrwa.  Nou pa vwar akoz PUC i kapab annan Maison Malavoie.  Minister Zafer Etranzer i kapab annan Maison Queau de Quincy e ki nou Minister Tourizm ki reprezant Lendistri pli enportan ki nou pa kapab annan nou prop Maison Tourizm.  Mon pa konnen si zot ava apel li apre en bann pionye tourizm dan Sesel; Parske Queau de Quincy ti en Pionye, Malavoie ti en Pionye.  Alors en Seselwa ki’n ede pou lans tourizm.  E la pourquoi pas Maison Madanm Fonseca, koman en Madanm ki’n zwe en rol dan Lendistri Tourizm.

        Sa i premye e an menm tan osi nou pe met sa parski nou vwar kontradiksyon.  Letan nou regarde ki poudir i annan plis ki R10 milyon ki pe ganny depanse pou fer en stad lanmizik ki ziska aprezan nou pa ankor konnen finalman ki detay ki i pou pran.  En stad lanmizik dan milye en landrwa rezidansyel ki pou desturb tou bann rezidan La Riviere Anglaise i en mons koumsanmenm, i en mons koumsanmenm.  Akoz ki Gouvernman pa kapab trouv larzan e nou koman en Lasanble avek en mazorite LDS , nou pare pou nou donn sa sipor,  pou trouv larzan koman en capital project pou ki Minister Tourizm avek son 2 brans prensipal –  son Minister li menm avek STB, zot pa kapab ganny larzan pou nobou fer sa batiman dan en landrwa apropriye dan lavil e oubyen pa neseserman dan lavil oubyen en pti git an deor lavil,  pou zot kapab abrit zot lekor.  E antretan nou Mr Chair, nou pou retir, nou pou demande ki sa nonm R8milyon pou rent i ganny tire e ki Minister Tourizm avek STB pa pey en sou laba kot Espace akoz sa pri ki in ganny vann, sa pri ki i n vann i montre ki se zot ki drwa Gouvernman Sesel e non pa Gouvernman Sesel ki dwa zot.  Se zot ki bezwen ki bezwen peye.  Akoz sa rent nou pou demande ki i ganny tire dan sa Bidze e ki antretan zot pey lavaler ki zot devret peye pou sa morso later ki nou tou nou konnen ;  parski tou dernyerman i annan bann Seselwa ki pe vann bann morso later.  Ou tann R14 milyon, sepa konbyen milyon Dolar e mon sir ki Onorab Hoareau, bann avoka lefe ki tou bann avoka ki fer sa bann prosesis lavant later, ensidswit.  I annan Onorab Hoareau, Onorab Georges, Onorab Andre –  bann avoka, zot konnen ki poudir sa pri i pa li.  E donk Mr Chairman, sa nou pa pou kapab aksepte.

        E lo en lot nivo nou anvi osi dir ki sa kalite keksoz i bezwen ganny raporte sa.  I bezwen pas devan kek Komite, kek Lotorite.  Parski sa dan li menm parey mon’n dir i montre en koripsyon e kekfwa Anti-Corruption Commission i a bezwen pran sa koman enn son latas pou vwar ki sa kalite koripsyon e parey nou koz lo lapovrete Sesel,  be la li la kot bann larzan pou nou kapab alleviate lapovrete i devret ale.

        E mon dernyen pwen Mr Chairman, lo sa size Bidze Tourizm – E  la mon anvi dir avek delegasyon Tourizm ki depi nou’n fer sa deba yer, in annan bokou kestyon lo bann chiffre ki zot in donnen espesyalman lo kote STB an relasyon ek bann Kontra.  E nou santi ki i ava enportan, espesyalman kot bann salaries i konsernen – iI ava enportan pou nou koman en Lasanble avan ki nou pran en desizyon, pou nou ganny en pe bann Kontra, bann Kontra ki’n ganny sinyen avek bann dimoun, pou nou koman en verifikasyon pou nou asire ki poudir be se sa egzakteman, parski mon kapab dir ki i annan fanmir bann reprezantan e menm bann reprezantan ki’n koz en pe –  ki nou ti ava kontan si nou ti ava kapab  ganny kopi sa bann Kontra.  E nou annan nou en pe letan pou nou fer sa nou pa bezwen fer li imedyatman.  Me nou kapab fer li letan nou rekomans regard Bidze apre Recess,  pou nou kapab met tou keksoz annord.

        Me selman an menm tan osi mon anvi reasir sa lendistri ki poudir lo nou kote, nou pou donn zot tou nou sipor.  Nou’n eksprim sa avek Minis  Loustau-Lalanne letan i ti pe dyalog avek nou, wi e apre sa ki son sermantasyon nou ti osi eksprim sa.  Minister Tourizm e sa Lendistri li menm i vreman, nou realize i vreman enportan e demen si nou, nou vin o pouvwar nou pou bezwen donn li sa menm lenportans.  Alors lo sa kote, pa bezwen pran keksoz personnel, me i zis ki nou donn zot lankourazman akoz sa se responsabilite ki nou, nou annan pou nou vwar laklarte dan tou son laspe. E alor mon krwar i pou enportan pou nou tenir sa an menm tan ki nou sort out bann keksoz e we want to see.  Nou anvi vwar the very best pour Minister Tourizm e en keksoz ki ti ava donn nou en gran plezir se pou vwar zot dan zot prop batiman o pli vit posib.

        Avek sa Mr Chairman, mon krwar ki i kler ki nou pe demande ki lo Bidze Minister Tourizm e menm dan sa 2 bilyon ki nou’n aprouve.  Menm dan sa 2 bilyon ki’n ganny aprouve, ki Minister Finans i tenir sa rent ki sipoze peye pou sa bann mwan ki pe vini antretan ki nou sort things out e ki Minister Tourizm pour lemoman nou met li on hold e i tonm dan bann deba ki nou pou fer apre ki Lasanble i reconvene.

E petet ziska pou mwan pa al dan okenn konfli, vi ki mon annan laparol.  Mr Chairman, mon pe osi move anba bann zafer Order la, ki mon pe move ki nou sispann en vot lo Bidze Minister Tourizm akoz nou anvi ki zot Bidze i pase byensir, me selman zis sa bann leklersisman pou nou kapab regarde kote ki nou kapab koupe si fodre koupe.  Me kote ki nou kapab osi ogmante kot nou devret ogmante.

        Mersi bokou Mr Chairman.

(APPLAUSE)

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Mon annan ankor 2 entervenan.  Mon a pran sa 2 entervenan apre mon a donn PS Payet en drwa repons lo sa bann queries.  Onorab Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, lo komansman mon oule zis fer en pti komanter avan mon fer mon pwen.  Mon oule al lo rikord poudir ki mon annan gran respe pou ou lofis e sa ki mon pe dir napa nanryen pou fer avek ou personnelman.  Me i annan pou fer avek mon lenpresyon e mon lopinyon lo sa ki pe pase dan nou Lasanble.  A plizyer repriz pandan prosesis ki nou’n angaz nou dan Bidze mon’n raise bann points of order an relasyon avek nou taktik e nou stratezi an relasyon travay lo Bidze as an Assembly, not as 2 parti dan Lasanble. E malgre mon’n fer sa a plizyer repriz e mon’n demande ki nou konsider Order 76(6) nou Standing Orders ki dir nou poudir nou bezwen relate nou kestyon spesifikman as to the Head ki nou pe konsidere.  Malgre sa, sa p’n zanmen ganny pran an konsiderasyon kot nou’n allow bann Manm al dan diferan direksyon avek diferan kestyon e raise diferan issue ki menm pa pertinan avek konteks Bidze ki nou pe demande.

        Mr Chair, i  kler pou mwan poudir sa ki nou pe fer ozordi nou pe fer li akoz nou pa pe vreman vwar lenportans annan en proper system pou manage Lasanble e sa i pa en refleksyon lo ou Mr Chair, mon oule ki ou konpran sa tre byen, me i pli to an relasyon avek nou as an Assembly including us Members, nou disiplin as Members osi an relasyon avek Your Chair.

        Mon oule fer sa pwen Mr Chair, akoz i kler poudir ler nou raise en kestyon lo en lease ki napa nanryen pou fer ek Bidze, nou ti devret onnet e dir poudir nou lentansyon in the first place was to do what we’ve just stated this morning e nou pa perdi en lazournen, me nou ti’n fer sa yer and we would have move on this yesterday.  I kler sa.  E we are back to the same throwback ki nou annan ler nou ti pe konsider apwentman bann Minis.  Kot nou ti dir en keksoz, apre fer en lot.

        Now, God forbid en zour ki nou annan en Gouvernman ki dir i pou fer en keksoz, apre  fer en lot keksoz.  That is one point.

        The second point ki mwan mon oule fer sorti, the second point ki mon oule fer sorti Mr Chair i an relasyon avek sa leskiz ki nou pe dir bann Staff SBC, bann Staff Lasanble.  Nou as Members nou ti bezwen mindful ki sa bann dimoun i annan en lavi an deor and when nou raise kestyon par egzanp, nou dir nou pa pou aprouv en Bidze akoz tel dimoun i lo Facebook.  Nou dir nou pa pou fer tel keksoz akoz tel keksoz ki pa an relasyon avek the quantum in the budget.  Se sa mon problenm.  If it was in relation to the quantum in the budget to the amount ki’n ganny mete dan sa bidze, mon napa problenm ek sa akoz Lasanble i annan tou son pouvwar anba son kad oversight ek son bann Komite pou apel okenn Minister ki i santi a okenn Minister ki i santi a okenn moman i annan keksoz ki i anvi klarifye.

        Be nou’n swazir Bidze pou nou score pwen politik, so be it Mr Chair, sa fizi in pete, bal in ale, nou pa kapab retourn listwar.  Me lefe i reste ki le pwen i bezwen ganny fer.  Si sa i lafason ki nou pou tre Bidze in the future, kot nou pou met politik avan konsiderasyon Bidze as a budget, then nou pou trouv nou dan bann sityasyon parey nou ti vwar kot en Mosyon i bezwen ganny anmennen par Leader Government Business apre ki nou’n ganny alerte ki pei ti’n efektivman bloke at the beginning of the year.  Ok.  That’s not what we wanted, that’s what you wanted.

        And the second point ki mon oule fer an relasyon ek sa size se ki we voted on that budget me malgre sa i annan zot lo lot kote latab ki pa ti vote lo sa Bidze, zot ti abstainYou zot devret fer zot pwen kler.  Now annou regard.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER Onorab ou’n fer le pwen.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mon pou move lo la.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ou’n fer le pwen, move on ….

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair, zis anpasan.  Mon annan en let la from Anti-Corruption Commission ki’n ekrir nou Lasanble.  Sa let i dir ki ‘It is unfortunate and important to state for the record’,  I dir  poudir, mon oule translate li an kreol, me mon pou lir li an angle pou pli vit.

It’s unfortunate an important to state for the record that without an approved budget the ACSS is unable to proceed to letters of offer for successful job applicants who were interviewed in December 2016 as we would need to state reanimations offered which under the circumstances we cannot.’’ E i kontinyen pou dir.

        ‘Hon’ble Speaker, as you are aware their already is an issue with regards to the ACCS 2017th budget that will be presented in the National Assembly by the Ministry of Finance which reiterate is not the budget we submitted but rather an almost 50 percent reduction.  50 percent because only one third of the actual budget has been given to Government pou son bann proze.’’

        Now, ou sa kontrakter ki pe ekout mwan an deor, ou sa kontrakter ki annan ‘’capital projects’’ remember poudir ou lapey anba capital projects, anba ou bann proze i baze lo bidze a bann Minister.  And final point Mr Chair, final point.  Saler bann Staff Minister Tourizm.  Mon pa pe koz sa bann Lanbasader, mon pe koz lo saler bann Staff lokal, i dan sa Bidze and we are suspending a vote on the budget of tourism to go after sa.

        So mon kestyon Mr Chair…

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER Onorab donn mwan laparol.  Donn mwan laparol Onorab.  Mic off.

        Ok, Onorab mon’n donn ou laparol, ou ti’n montre ou lentansyon pou reponn sa ki PS Finans in met devan nou.  Depi ou’n komanse ou’n kestyon desizyon ki mon’n pran.  Desizyon sa let Anti-Corruption Commission ki ou pe lir, premyerman i pa ankor ni menm ofisyel.  Avan mon desann, 5 minit avan mon desann mon ganny en kopi sa let ki ankor lo mon biro e mon pa ankor regarde.

        PS Finans in port a mon latansyon bann bodies, bann constitutional bodies ki bezwen ganny pran ozordi e Anti-Corruption Commission i lo la.  Mwan mon pa ankor lir sa let e ou pe lir sa let an piblik dan Lasanble.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Kot i gannyen, corruption.  Kot i gannyen, i annan en leak.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

E sa let i adrese lo Speaker Lasanble.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, i adres lo Speaker Lasanble, i annan kopi pou Leader Lopozisyon, kopi pou Leader of Government Business.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi, me mon santi ki en tel…

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Si zot pa ankor gannyen p a mon problenm sa.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order, order.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

I dan pou tou lede. Si zot pa ankor gannyen pa mon problenm.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order, order.  Sa let parey mon’n dir, mon’n fek gannyen 5 minit avan mon desann.  I ankor lo mon biro, mon pa ankor ni menm regard konteni.  Me let in ganny fer piblik.

        Ok, zis atraver desizyon ki mon’n pran bomaten.  Desizyon mon’n dir, yer swar mon’n sorti dan mon biro tre tar.  I annan plizyer keksoz ki pe arive, kekfwa zot pa realize poudir koman mon lofis mon napa zis sa Chamber pou mwan run.  Ok?  Mon annan the whole Assembly ki enkli sepa konbyen Staff pou nou deal avek.  Ok?

        Nou annan plizyer keksoz ki pe arive ki mon lofis i bezwen donn latansyon,  Lofis Madanm Clerk i bezwen donn latansyon,   Lofis Direkter Zeneral i bezwen donn latansyon.  E sa bann keksoz i ongoing.  Dan mon bann Break mon osi tou pe fer sa bann travay.  Rezon ki mon’n reste aswar yer ziska tar se pour sa rezon.

Mon’n donn ou laparol, ou’n montre mon ou anvi entervenir –  Onorab Ramkalawan one second –  pou ou entervenir lo sityasyon Bidze Tourizm ki devan nou.  Mon’n fer sorti dan mon Kominikasyon poudir sa Bidze ki nou’n aprouve semenn pase i enable Gouvernman akoz se s aki zot ti demande.  Se sa ki ti sa sonm agree par Leader of Government Business avek PS Finans pou Gouvernman kapab operate pou 4 mwan.  Desizyon ki mon’n pran i pa pe tenir pei pou 4 mwan,  nou pe al 1 mwan.  Le moman ki Prezidan i vini, i delivre son State of the Nation Address, nou pou pran 2 zour, 3 zour pou nou kapab fini sa Bidze e then nou repran biznes Lasanble parey normal.

Mon anvi ankor fer sorti ki i posib pete semenn prosenn nou pou napa en quorum.  Lakantite Manm ki parey mon’n dir in demann mwan pou zot al on leave so far i annan 10.  Mon pa konnen, i posib i annan ankor ki pou eksprim sa.  Mon annan Staff esansyel, mon annan Staff esansyel ki pa pou la e san sa bann Staff nou pa kapab fer marse Lasanble.  Ok.

Mon ti’n fini dir zot…

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, akoz ou pa ti’n fer en ABC.  Ou ti’n ganny korperasyon nou tou.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, Onorab De Commarmond ,  mon ti pe adres komanter ki Onorab Sebastien Pillay in fer.  Onorab Pillay mon ti’n donn ou sans pou ou fer komanter lo sa.  Mon pa konnen, si ou napa komanter lo Tourizm.  Bon, Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman, on a point of order,  mwan koman en Manm sa Lasanble mon pa kapab aksepte ki poudir en Manm Onorab i mislead the House e non selman mislead the House, me mislead the public.  Lartik 155 anba ki Onorab De Commamrond ti anmenn Mosyon, en urgent Motion pou aprouve e Lartik 155 i kler ki poudir letan en Appropriation Act pa ankor ganny pase, Lasanble Nasyonal par rezolisyon i kapab, ‘’authorize the withdraw of monies from the Consolidated Fund for the purpose of meeting expenditure necessary to carry on the service of the Government until the expiration of 4 months.  Including salaries of tou bann civil servants,’’ e sa i enkli osi bann travayer Minister Tourizm.

        Alor this is a complete misleading e sa ki apel politik bonmarse e Onorab Sebastien Pillay i devret onte ki poudir o komansman lannen i vin mislead sa pep pou fer sa pep per.  Non dan LDS i pa nou lentansyon pou blok okenn Bidze parey zot in vwar ziska aprezan.  I pa nou lentansyon, sa se zot ki anvi nou fer, me nou, nou pa pou fer li.

        Alor Mr Chair, can we please move on e adres size ki devan nou.  E Mr Chairman, si bann Manm, we move to adjourn parski nou’n fini eksprim egzakteman sa ki nou’n fer.  We move to adjourn further decision lo Ministry of Tourism and STB until the Assembly reconvenes. E mon met sa e I’m sure nou pou annan dimoun ki pou…

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Sebastien Pillay, mon konpran ou pwen.  Onorab Ramkalawan in adres ou through the Chair.  Through the Chair, komanter ki ou’n fer.  Ok.  Bon, mon annan ankor en manm.  Avan ki mon pran okenn desizyon.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, mon ti a kontan demann PS Finans pou comment on that.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon pe vin lo PS Finans, mon annan ankor en Manm.  Onorab Henrie, apre PS Finans i ava fer komanter.

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mr Chair, bonzour tou dimoun.  mon annan de pwen Mr Chairpoint arising baze lo deklarasyon PS apre en komanter fer par Leader Lopozisyon.  Premyerman lo pwen ki Minister Finans in dir nou la bomaten, so mon ti pou osi kontan konnen si Minister Finans ti kapab konfirm avek sa Lasanble si kontrakter ki ti fer sa batiman Espace, GICC ki i ti ganny rann tou larzan ki in depanse koman tax lo materyo konstriksyon ler i ti fer Espace ? E si wi, konbyen larzan ti ganny rann e si wi lekel ki ti ordonnen, donn sa lenstriksyon pou refund GICC tou son depans tax ?  Sa i premye komanter.

        Dezyenm, touzour mon ti ava kontan en direksyon par Minister Finans lo sa size.  bann Staff ki STB pe anploye deor, baze lo sa kalite saler ki nou’n tann zot pe gannyen.  Si Minister Finans pa ti a krwar i en nide ki zot saler i ganny reglemante en pe parey bann Anbasader nou’n tande zot antre dan grid Gouvernman.  Parski sa bann sonm i en pe egzorbitan pou nou.  Nou pa konnen kwa ki zot pe gannyen e akoz.  Ki mannyer ou zistifye sa kalite saler ki pe donn zot baze dan sak pei ?  So mon pe dir anliny en pe avek bann Anbasader ki nou’n fek konsider lot zour si nou ti kapab ganny en komanter avek Minister Fians lo sa pwen ?  Mersi bokou.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Hoareau oule raise en point of order, apre nou ava demann PS.  Onorab Gill, pandan moman ki PS ti’n fer son statement, mon ti’n demande lekel ki oule entervenir.  Mon’n ganny 3 lo sa kote ki’n lev lanmen, mon’n ganny Onorab Sebastien Pillay lo sa kote ki’n lev lanmen, ok ?  Parey Onorab De Commarmond in dir, nou bezwen pran en desizyon pou nou kapab move on.  Ou’n selman lev lanmen apre ki Onorab Sebastien Pillay in lev sa matter.  Ok? Kot in reponn mon kominike ki mon’n fer bomaten.  Ok?

        Onorab Basil Hoareau oule fer en point of order?

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, mon point of order is in respect of sa premye pwen ki Onorab Henrie in raise.  Mon pa krwar i relevan pou… Nou pe debat pour lemoman Bidze Minister Tourizm.  Sa pwen, nou pa anvi kasyet keksoz, nou anvi tou keksoz zi vin o kler.  Minister Finans pou vini li, Minister Finans son Bidze pa ankor ganny aprouve, apre i pou vini.

        So sa kestyon, sa kestyon I letan…  Wi i enportan, mon dakor avek ou i enportan.  Mon pa pe dir i pa enportan mwan.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Address The Chair, Onorab Hoareau.

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Wi Mr Chair, sorry.  Mon pe dir poudir sa ki i pe dir probableman vre i enportan.  Nou pa anvi kasyet keksoz nou.  Me nou, nou pe dir annou fer li properly.  Letan Minister Finans i prezant son Bidze,  sa i en kestyon ki a relevan a Minister Finans, me pa relevan avek Bidze Minister Tourizm.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Dakor.  Dakor Onorab Hoareau.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, let me add.  Ou vwar, sa issue,  sa issue mon krwar mwan i bezwen vin avek tou, Minister Finans petet, i byen ou’n lev li la dan en serten sans.  Minister Finans al fer tou ou resers.  Mwan mon ti ava kontan, menm si i annan dimoun ki’n finans JJ Spirit Foundation  la, al rod li.  Annou get li en kou li osi.  Ki in fer, lekel ki’n benefisye ek li. Lekel ki’n isi. En complete check nou bezwen fer dan tou son lanpler.  Mersi.

        Apre osi al tyeke bann lezot Foundation.  Konbyen zot in aste later avek Gouvernman, bann later konblaz.  Rent partou.  Konmsi vini, donn nou en zafer konplet pou nou konpran. Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab Hoareau, point of order taken.  Onorab Henrie, sa premye pwen PS Finans ava reponn ler son Minister i vini prosen.  Bon mon a demann PS Finans prezan pou fer komanter lo bann komanter zeneral ki’n fer vizavi son statement bomaten e vizavi Departman Tourizm.

        En moman PS Payet.  Onorab Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mersi,  Mr Chair, mon pa oule fer polemik with all due respect to the Chair.  Me selman mon pa dakor avek komanter Leader Lopozisyon, ki mon’n deliberately try to mislead the House e ki mon devret onte.

        Mon krwar poudir as a Member, mwan mon annan respe pou Leader Lopozisyon.  He knows very well e mon osi espekte ki nou annan respe pou kanmarad e ki mwan, mon pa onte pou être en Manm Lasanble.  I speak my mind e mon ti a kontan put on record ki i pa’n mon lentansyon pou mislead personn, me mon’n state the facts as I see it, as is the right of any Member  lot kote latab to disagree with what I say.  Thank you Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, point taken.  Ok, PS Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair e mersi bann Onorab.  Zis pou azoute, letan mon’n diskit avek Minister Lenfrastriktir, Habitat avek Transpor bomaten lo en pe bann market rate at that time 2008 ki zot ti pe vann later dan sa bann area e menm Preseverance,  ledikasyon ki zot in donn nou, e sa i kapab ganny verifye par Oditer Zeneral, ki apepre R75 a R85 par met kare.  This is the market rate ki zot ti dir mwan an 2008 e actually la i apepre R85 a 100 keksoz par met kare.  Me sa i kapab ganny verifye further avek sa Minister konsernen.

        Secondly, zis pou azoute, prenan an kont avek rekomandasyon ki’n ganny fer pou nou revwar si STB i kapab ganny son prop building,  nou kapab fer assessment profon avek Development Committee e demann STB osi pou fer en assessment.  Me zis pou klarifye en pe dan Lagreman ki’n ganny sinyen, i annan en termination clause ki ou bezwen donn 3 mwan Notice e nou, nou bezwen get en pe laspe legal.  Demann AG’s Office en pe advice pou regarde si nou pa peye en mwan, ki son laspe legal i pou ete, ki konpansasyon ki ou pou donnen.  E tousala nou bezwen prenan an kont propozisyon ki’n ganny fer.  E osi nou a fer en proper assessment avek the Accommodation Committee pou vwar en e pe tou bann rates Gouvernman ki pe ganny peye dan lavil e an deor lavil osi, pou vwar en pe the market rate konpare avek JJ Spirit kot Espace i ete, kot Tourism.

        E secondly, in regards to the representation fees, poudir ki nou kapab fer sa assessment pou vwar akoz ou annan 2 kategori.  Ou annan kategori ki ou annan Staff ki sorti Sesel ki al reprezant Gouvernman aletranze parey Foreign Affairs e ou pey zot saler, ou pey zot lasirans, ou pey zot housing.  I annan tou sa bann kou ki ganny mete.  Me tandis sa ki mon krwar CEO in mansyonnen yesterday,   i  bann prezantasyon ki overseas.  So i zis en figure ki ou peye pou zot e ou pa pe pey housing, ou pa pe pey lasirans.  E tousala nou kapab fer en assessment pou vwar letan en Staff i monte konbyen i koute ?  Letan en re prezantater i travay overseas konbyen i koute e nou ava vwar sa 2 kou, nou kapab provide avek Lasanble osi.

        Zis pou azoute konsernan the current provisional budget ki nou’n gannyen,  nou kapab donn lendikasyon ki tou bann obligasyon ki currently nou annan, nou pou kapab peye.  Me selman si i annan nouvo proze ki okenn Minister ki pe ganny fer, nou pa pou kapab fer li.  Nou pou keep on hold ziska ler the total budget i approve.  Me selman the current obligation ki nou annan, saler nou pou kapab peye.  Mersi.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, that’s what I said.  Tou nouvo proze lakaz pou bloke.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab De Commarmond,  PS Payet ki annan laparol, silvouple.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chair, on a point of order.  mon anvi ki Onorab De Commarmond pa kapab zis met son microphone on e koze.  I bezwen show respect to The Chair.  He’s got to stop this.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Annou move parey en Lasanble , annou travay parey en Lasanble ok?  I annan bann moman leksitasyon, nou krwar nou pou kapab kontrole.  Ok?

        PS Payet ou’n fini?  Ok, bon. PS Payet in eksplik sityasyon aktyel.  Ok ?  Prezan Lasanble i ava pran en desizyon.  Si nou pou move pou nou pran en vot lo STB, STA avek Departman Tourism.  Ok ?  Nou pa ankor vreman ganny en Motion anba okenn Order pou nou move pou suspend debate.  Ok ?  Onorab.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, mersi.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

I fer ankor.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

In donn mwan permisyon la.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mon’n donn li.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, mwan mon sizere;  bann issues in ganny lev-e, nou konpran.  I ava ganny regarde, i ava ganny deal avek.  Me nou annou vote pou sa Bidze, pou nou kapab bouze.  Ou bann propozisyon ki ou’n mete i ok, be selman, konmsi nou bezwen bouze nou osi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon PS Payet in met serten pwen devan, ok?  Amwen nou ganny PS Finans ki fer en komitman ki ler nou repran Lasanble, serten lenformasyon ki Lasanble in demande, i ganny anmennen, i ganny prezante devan Lasanble e serten komitman ki in fer i kapab retournen.  I kapab  dir nou poudir la in koz avek Gouvernman, in koz avek STB pou regarde si zot vreman pe fer bann demars pou rod en lot landrwa and so on.

        PS Payet in fer son pozisyon lo la, alor annou regarde si from sa pozisyon zot pare pou pran en desizyon e apre nou ava take it as of February. 

        Yes, Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman, mon pa pe vwar vreman akoz i annan en big issue.  Apre ki Ministry of Tourism i sorti nou pe al regard NDEA.  E akoz nou pe al regard NDEA la, se parski letan NDEA ti vin devan Lasanble ti annan serten keksoz ki pa ti kler e alors nou ti dir zot bezwen retournen.  Ti menm annan en Mr Quinn ki ti pe al konze e nou’n esper li retournen pou li vin son konze.

        FIU ti pas menm zafer, ti annan serten keksoz ki pa ti kler.  Nou pa ti dir nou pa pe al vot kont Bidze.  Defans osi tou ti menm parey e alors se egzakteman sa ki nou pe fer avek…  I pa en keksoz nouvo e kekfwa bann Minis avek son delegasyon i kapab trouv sa koman en sok pou vwar sa bann reaksyon.  Me ki ofet i pa naryen nouvo – kot letan nou deside pou nou pran en pti adjournment pou nou apre retourn lo la.  E parey mon’n dir NDEA pe retournen apre ki zot ale.

        So, tou bann keksoz i annord pou zot bann peyman.  Konmsi lavi i kontinyen.  Lavi pa pe al arete la.  Letan zot sorti deor zot pa pe al Employment Centre pou rod en plas travay.  Zot lavi i kontinyen e i zis ki an Fevriye zot retourn la avek enn de sa bann keksoz e in fact nou menm kapab fer keksoz al en pe pli vit Mr Chairman.  Sa ki nou’n demande, sa ki nou’n demande bann Kontra,  nou kapab demande ki zot Komite FPAC i kapab regard sa pou nou kapab osi respekte bann travayer.  Nou kapab fer sa lemoman ki zot, zot pare.  Mwan mon pa pe al okenn par, mon napa okenn konze pou mwan ale.  Mon pou isi menm Mahe.  Nou kapab zwenn, regard sa e apre sa i vin zis en matter ki pase.

 Alors konmsi sa bann tapaz la, vreman napa nesesite pou tousala parski prosedir ki nou pe demande, me i pa ki nou vote la.  Se sa ki mon pe demann ou Onorab De Commarmond through the Chair.  Nou pe demande ki nou pa pran en vot la, nou ale e apre sa nou retournen pou nou fer sa travay byen.  Ok ?  Se sa ki mon pe demande Mr Chairman.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  PS Payet i annan sa propozisyon.  Eski ou dakor dan lespas en mwan, anfen apepre 5 semenn ki apre ki Lasanble, Komite FPAC in ganny sa bann dokiman,  petet in ganny en pe leklersisman avek CEO STB,  Avek ou menm ou PS Payet,  ki premye Minister ki nou ava pran apre repons Leta Lanasyon i ava vin Minister Tourism, STB ek STA kot en desizyon final i ava ganny pran zot Bidze.

        PS Payet, sa i propozisyon ki ganny met devan.  Pending ki Komite i ganny sa bann dokiman.  Akoz otan ki i annan en digite ki napa leklersisman mon osi tou mon annan pouvwar anba Standing Order ki nou kapab sispann sa deba until Lasanble i ganny lenformasyon ki kler.  Ok ?  So PS Payet mon donn ou laparol pou koz lo sa propozisyon.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Wi, zis tou advice lo nou kote.  Mon konnen nou pou bezwen plis letan lo kote building akoz mon konnen 4 semenn, 6 semenn i pa pou ase pou annan en plan lo building tourism.  Me selman lo kote rent sa nou ava asize avek Departman Tourizm avek Gouvernman e menm avek the service provider pou regarde.  Me selman lo kote building li menm, sa nou pou bezwen plis letan lo la.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, me selman i annan lezot lenformasyon ki bann Manm in demann ek CEO STB tou.  Me ankor an tout konfidansyalite, nou pa pou fer li open pou tou Manm.  Sa bann lenformasyon ava ganny prezante devan FPAC pou rezon konfidansyalite.  Ok ?

        CEO, STB ou ti oule dir en pti parol ? Madanm Francis ?

CEO SHERIN FRANCIS

Aktyelman pou mwan mon napa okenn problenm ou provide sa bann Kontra tou bann Staff ki lo Kontra deor e tou bann reprezantasyon ki nou travay avek.  Akoz i vreman kler lo ki baz zot ganny peye, sa kantite larzan ki zot ganny peye.

        Pou legzanp ki mon’n donnen yer, ler nou realize poudir en gran parti sa bout i al dan bann fiscal obligation ki dan sa pei ki nou bezwen peye pou serten Staff osi.

        So, mon menm mwan mon ti a kontan donn klarite lo la, Lasanble poudir ler en saler, sirtou bann ki lo Kontra i ganny kalkile, nou bezwen pran an kont tou bann cost ki annan ki relye avek en Staff dan sa pei.  Si son social security charges i o, nou bezwen pran an kont sa osi a koz i pou reflekte dan saler sa Staff e sa ki’n arive dan sa legzanp ki mon’n donnen yer.

        En staff ki lo kontra i ganny peye en fee, i bezwen rod  son prop accommodation, son medical insurance.  Son bann medical fees.  Tou larestan keksoz i bezwen fer son prop demars.  E reprezantasyon ki i bann PR Companies ki nou peye dan serten rezyon ki execute, fer bann aktivite marketing lo nou behalf.  Ankor zot, nou pey zot zis en fee, nou pa pey rent.  Nou pa pey office running charges.  Nou napa tou sa bann charges, nou annan zis en fee e zot, zot donn nou en dedicated person ki pare pou egzekit bann aktivite on our behalf.

        Me selman mon ti a kontan eksplik sa Lasanble pou piblik ki pe ekoute,  in toultan annan sa deba ki petet si pa i pli bon, pli cost effective pou nou annan en PR representation ki en staff.  Ler ou annan en staff ki Seselwa dan en pei, sa Staff i dedye 100 poursan pou ou.  Ou annan son undivided attention pou travay pou pei.  Ler ou annan en reprezantasyon i pa toultan le ka, i kapab annan konfli lentere e ou bezwen toultan pe fer sir, pe veye poudir en PR Company i pa pou donn sa kalite latansyon parey ou annan en staff ki 100 poursan dedye pou pei e ki i en staff a ker.  So i pa pe fer li zis pou sa saler me i pe fer li osi pou son pei osi tou.

        Me mon pou napa okenn ezitasyon pou mwan share sa bann Kontra.  Me selman Leader of Government Business in dir kekfwa fer li la.  Mwan mon krwar pou rezon ki nou pe koz lo saler staff, petet  kekfwa dan FPAC will be the best place  for that to take place. 

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Basil Hoareau.

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, an relasyon ek propozisyon ki Onorab Ramkalawan in fer, premyerman i pa’n dir nou anba ki Order i pe fer sa propozisyon e mon santi ki nou pa kapab entertain sa propozisyon.  Mon pou dir akoz Mr Chair.

        Mr Chair, yer letan nou ti adjourn ou ti’n fer en Lord anba 76(4).  Nou ti dezagree, me Lord in ganny fer, nou respekte.  Letan mon get 76(4), i vedir ki ou’n fer yer,  ou’n anvoy sa deba pou ozordi, ok To be concluded, ok? Kot ou’n dir savedir anba 76(4), vi ki ou’n servi li ou pe dir ki ozordi, for it to be concluded.  E prezan 76(4) i dir ek ou, ‘’if the time so fixed is reached before the head concern is disposed of,’’ savedir letan in arive e sa Head pa ankor ganny depose of,  ‘’The chairperson shall forthwith put every question necessary to depose of that Head.’’

        So ki mon pe sey dir, vi ki yer ou’n servi 76(4) i vedir ki ozordi 76(4) i still applicable ozordi e ozordi we have to take a vote.  We have to take a vote, we have to take a vote.  E si i annan okenn Mosyon pou adjourn or postpone the debates i pou bezwen vin anba Order 22. 

I bezwen ganny fer anba Order 22.  E sa Order 22,  i 22(5) i dir ek ou poudir sa Mosyon i bezwen ganny fer par en Manm ki li i pa’n partisip dan deba.  Onorab Ramkalawan in deza partisip dan deba an relasyon tourizm.  I pa kapab fer sa Mosyon anba 22(5).  E 22 i pa zis fini la li.  I annan en lot keksoz ki i dir ou.  I dir ek ou koumsa  –22(3).

22(3) Mr Chair, i dir ek ou, ‘’  if the Speaker or the Chairperson shall be of the opinion that the Motion is an abuse of the proceedings of the Assembly or Committee,  as the case maybe, the Speaker or Chairperson may decline to propose it. ‘’

So, ou annan en lot keksoz la, eski letan sa Mosyon in ganny fer i pa vedir ki otomatikman i ganny put to the floor menm si i seconded.  I the Chairperson pou deside la si i pa en abuse.  E mwan mon pou dir Mr Chair poudir s ai en abuse.

Yes nou ti ganny dir nou bezwen lenformasyon, nou bezwen adjourn, 76(4) in ganny fer, nou’n adjourn.  La nou pou adjourn ankor?  This is an abuse and also as ……… mon pa krwar poudir sa i aplikab.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Ok, pou lenformasyon Lasanble, Onorab Ramkalawan pa ankor move en Mosyon anba okenn Standing Order.  In fer en propozisyon, in met lo latab avek PS Payet, avek panel.  I ankor en propozisyon, mon konpran le pwen Onorab Hoareau.  Mon osi mon pe regard Order 76(4).  So Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, mon pa anvi ki sa deba ozordi i vin en deba ant avoka lo lenterpretasyon nou Standing Orders.  Nou tou nou avoka dan sa Chamber e nou tou nou konnen ki mannyer pou lir Standing Orders.  Me mon bezwen dir avek tou respe ki mon annan pou mon Koleg Avoka ki Onorab Basil Hoareau.  Son lenterpretasyon 76(4) i pa byen e i pa byen pou sa senp rezon.

        76(4) i dir, ‘’The Speaker shall fix the time on another day.  Yer ou’n fix ozordi, apre i dir i dir.  If the time  so fixed is reached before the Head concerned is disposed of the time fixed is today, it will be fixed at 5pm.  Ok.  Be that’s what it said.  Si 5er i arive, nou pa ankor fini, la Onorab Basil Hoareau a fer son Mosyon ki i fek fer la.  We are not there yet.  I ankor 10:20.  Nou annan ziska 5er pou ale avan ki i kapab fer sa largiman.

        Alor silvouple les Onorab Leader Lopozisyon.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order, order.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Les Onorab Leader Lopozisyon fer son laplikasyon pou en Mosyon anba Order …… otherwise.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order, order, order.  Onorab Georges, ou’n fini? Ok.

        Onorab De Commarmond.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, mersi.  Ou vwar si i ti ekout mwan la, nou ti’n lwen la.  Mr Chair, ler mon ti move sa Mosyon pou nou aprouv en bout larzan pou Finans kapab kontinyen fer run pei la,  mon ti dir nou kapab pran ankor 4 mwan pou nou diskite.  Mon napa  problenm mwan pou nou anvoy debate on the budget pou ziska Mars, Avril.  Mon napa problenm ek sa mwan.

        Ou konnen ki mon problenm mwan ?  Mon problenm se sa prosedir.  Konmsi si ou ti’n fer ABC, nou t’n zwenn,  nou ti tonm dakor,  nou ti pou napa tou sa kalite zafer ki pe pase dan nou Lasanble la.  E nou ti’n siport ou.  Me ti ava annan en lantant.  Sa ki’n manke.  E prezan mon pa konnen lekel ki pe konsey ou.  Sa mon problenm.  Ou konpran?

        Annou tonm dakor lo en keksoz pou nou move forward Mr Chair.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon, Onorab lo sa size ABC, Standing Order i fer kler.  Ler Speaker i santi or Deputy Speaker ki dan Chair i santi i annan en nesesite pou konsilte sa 2 Leaders atraver business of the Assembly i kapab convene en ABC.  Me i annan moman osi tou kot i donn The Chair the right pou pran serten desizyon san nou fer en konsiltasyon avek sa 2 Leaders.

        Parey mon’n dir.  Mon’n arvi lo sa desizyon apre ki mwan, san konsiltasyon person –  apre ki mwan mon’n pran desizyon e mwan mon’n konsilte avek mon Clerk ki nou’n come lo sa konklizyon.

        Bon, nou napa en Mosyon ki’n move to adjourn the debate. Ok? Nou’n ariv lo en pwen kot mon krwar nou’n exhaust all questionsPS Payet in fer sorti son pozisyon, bann lenformasyon ki i pou donn sa Lasanble.  In donn en komikman ki an retour an Fevriye i pou donn bann lenformasyon.  Pandan Recess FPAC i kapab meet avek STB;  avek Departman Tourizm ek Minis tou, pou sort out tou sa bann queries ki’n ganny lev-e and all that.  E lo sa pwen Lasanble in exhaust debat pou Minister Tourizm e nou’n ariv lo en pwen pou nou pran en vot.

        No more debate.  Napa Mosyon ki’n ganny move to suspend debate. So nou’n ariv lo en pwen pou nou pran en vote.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman.  Ou konnen ki pou arive.  Sa ki pou arive,  ou menm ou’n dir ki pou annan bokou lenformasyon ki nou pou fer pandan Recess ensidswit.  Be what’s the use of ganny lenformasyon si nou pe al pran en vot?  This is putting the cart before the horse.  So, letan mon’n koz pli boner mon’n donn ou Notice ki mwan mon anvi move pou en adjournment and this is what the Standing Orders specify.  Ki poudir we’ve got to give you notice.  Sa ki mon’n fer pli boner was the notice.  OkThat was the notice e la mon anvi move formally under 22….

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Me Onorab, lefe ki ou’n entervenir dan deba Standing Order 22 i anpes ou to move the Motion.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chair, because we are in a Committee.  I mean sa bann lezot la ti deal avek the Assembly itself.  Under 80.  Under 80…En pti kou menm Mr Chair.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab i pa paret ki 80 osi i pou permet ou.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Non, non.  Sa direksyon ki ou’n donnen. Sa advice akoz mwan mon’n partisip ladan mon pe move ki Onorab Georges i ava move sa postponement.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab Georges osi in partisip dan deba.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chair, Mr Chair.  Ozordi la sa ki nou pe vwar la se sa ki kekfwa bann dimoun ki pe swiv i bezwen ganny en konpran.  Letan nou ti pran sa bann lezot Heads la, kot nou ti menm meet in camera dan sa Lasanble.  Akoz sete keksoz ki zot ti anvi, zot ti tonm dakor.  Ti napa okenn problenm.  Ti napa okenn problenm.

        Me la ozordi, la ozordi sa ki zot pe fer.  Akoz deza zot komans dekouver ki poudir i annan bann keksoz ki pe ganny resorti.  Par egzanp sa ki nou’n gannyen la bomaten, la deswit zot zwe difisil.

        Onorab De Commarmond li menm li in dir FPAC  i ava zwenn i ava regarde.  Me ki bi si ou pou zwenn pou ou regarde me kan ofet at the end of the day pou napa gran keksoz ki ou pou fer ?  Annou fer en travay konkret, annou fer en travay serye.  Annou pa pran en vot lo.  Annou pa pran en vot la.

        PS in dir ki i pou al koz avek accommodation committee.  I pou al isi, i pou al laba pou regarde konsernan..  I bezwen konsey legal avek Attorney General.  Tousala PS in dir.  Konsey legal pou regarde konsernan rent.  Be tousala nou pa pran na konsiderasyon?

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Se sa ki  mon’n devan Lasanble.  Se sa ki mon’n met devan Lasanble.  Ki i annan bokou queries e menm madanm Francis, CEO STB in donn son langazman pou vin devan FPAC pou fer serten diskisyon pou prezant…  Ok.  Ok.  Onorab Vidot vitman.

HON AUDREY VIDOT

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, with all do respect for all Members dan Lasanble.  Taler Onorab Ramkalawan in dir avek Onorab De Commarmond, in zis met Mic on.  Ou’n donn en ruling ou’n dir nou pe pran en vot.  I met son Mic on, i koze.  Nou bezwen practice what we preach.  Ou konpran?

        Taler Onorab Simon Gill in lev son lanmen avan Onorab Henrie.  I pa’n ganny ni sans pou li koze, lezot in ganny sans.  It’s as if its only one side.  Apre desizyon ki ti ganny pran semenn pase dan nou bann deliberasyon, it was the National Assembly, pa zis la kote sa latab.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, Onorab.  Ler Onorab Henrie ti lev lanmen Onorab Simon Gill pa ti ankor antre dan Lasanble.  Ok, mon zis anvi met sa byen.

Ok, mon annan 2 Manm.  Onorab De Commarmond, Onorab Georges, apre mon pou pran en desizyon.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, ou vwar.  Mon pe siport ou desizyon.  Ou desizyon i byen.  Mon’n eksplike.  Mwan mon napa problenm pou ki Bidze antye nou pa fini debat lo la, nou anvoy li pou whatever date ki i ganny anvoye.  Me selman mon’n dir, si nou ti zwenn avan.  Ti annan en laranzman ti ava pli byen, les ki nou pa’n zwenn.  Me selman la i annan en prosedir, sa Standing Order la i bezwen ganny swiv sa.  Se sa ki la e mwan mon apresye ki ou pe swiv omwen ou’n ekoute, ou pe swiv sa Standing Order.  Se sa ki ou devret pe fer.  I napa nanryen, si Onorab Ramkalawan li i ti konpran sa Standing Order byen i ti pe korpere li osi la,  nou ti ava move, nou ti ava vot lo sa bout la.  I pa anpes nou, tou sa bann investigation ki zot oule fer la.  Mon napa en sou problenm lo la mwan.  Si i annan ankor kontrer investigation anmennen.  Nou bezwen investigate tou sa ki i annan pou investigate.  E FPAC has the power to tackle tou sa bann issues.  E nou’n dir FPAC fer vin piblik, nou ava diskit li an piblik.  Napa problem. E Onorab Ramkalawan ki Chair FPAC.   E Deputy Chair, i Onorab Afif, o-bor li lanmenm la.

        Mon napa en sou problenm.  Kontrer si i annan ankor pou investigate anmennen.  Sa ki nou devret pe fer.  Me for the matter of procedure, ou ou’n donn en ruling e ou sa ki ou dir e nou, nou bezwen swiv e respekte.  Ou konpran mwan ?  Wi, wi nou a konplent, me selman ou ruling i final e ou’n dir annou vote.  Debate in exhausted, nou vote, apre nou a pran en desizyon pou adjourn si oule pou nou sa.

        Mwan  mon krwar sa ki ou’n deside, sanmenm sa ki byen.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon ti oule premyerman apologise avek tou bann dimoun deor ki pe ekout nou pou lafason ki nou pe anmenn sa Lasanble ozordi.  Kot nou pe lager lo en pwen prosedir olye focus lo bann problenm ki devan nou la ozordi. E mon ti a kontan dezyenmman pou dir ankor enn fwa pou piblik deor tande Mr Chair ki ou desizyon depi bomaten in absolutely spot on.  E tou bann desizyon ki ou’n pran i byen nou devret felisit ou pou sa.

        Akoz ti napa Mosyon devan ou, ou’n call pou en vote.  Sa vote pa ankor arive e in ganny enteronp par Onorab Leader Lopozisyon ki’n dir ki i ti’n donn ou Notice ki i annan en Mosyon ki pe vini.  Alor pou evit tou polemik, mon ti ava kontan propoz sa sityasyon swivan.

        Mon ti anvi move anba Order 80, ekout mwan byen;  ki nou suspend the debate on this Head.’’  Onorab Basil Hoareau ou a ganny ou letan silvouple.  Espere, les mwan fini.

        ‘’All other debate on this Head to be suspended and that the committee when it seats again’’  – i ava kontinyen deba lo la e antretan nou kontinyen avek deba on the Appropriation Bill in the Committee Stage parey nou pe fer.  Nou a pran en lot Head.  Sa se mon propozisyon.

        E pou reponn a Onorab Basil Hoareau ki pou al obzekte natirelman parey i fer toultan ler mon fer en Mosyon,  mon ti ava in the alternative si sa i pou vin en problenm e nou pa anvi en problenm, nou anvi move onmove e si fodre vote, nou a vote lo la.  Under Order 91 to suspend the Standing Orders to adjourn the debate on this issue and to continue with it ler nou resume an Fevriye.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, nou annan en Mosyon.  Ok, Onorab Basil Hoareau.

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, si Mosyon ti byen an accordance avek Order, petet mon ti a segonde si ti in accordance avek Standing Orders.  Me malerezman i pa in accordance avek Standing Orders.  Mon annan tou respe pou Onorab Georges, me mon pou dezagree avek li lo la.  Annefe standing Order 80 i kler.  Sel Manm ki kapab bouze, ki kapab move the Assembly to adjourn the debate dan Committee, ki kapab move pou adjourn the debate dan Komite, se the member in charge of a Business under consideration and the Member in charge of a  business under consideration se Onorab Charles De Commarmond parski li ki’n move a Motion.  No, but it says.  It says,’’ a Member in charge of business under consideration.  It cannot be all Members, it is only one Member and the Member who has move for that Motion.’’ And the Motion ti ganny move by Onorab Charles De Commarmond.

        Dezyenmman Mr Chair, sa ki Onorab Georges in propoze under 80 i pou aktyelman i pou en labi.  I pa pou sa purpose ki 80 ti fer.  80 i dir ek ou, ou adjourn the Committee.  I arete, i fer en report.  I dir ou to report progress to the Assembly and ask leave to sit againSo letan ou sispann li konpletman, Committee i arete.  Committee report now it’s of a purpose of making a report to the Assembly.  Ou pa pou kapab servi sa zis pou pa vot lo en Head.  Sa pa purpose.

        Lo sa lot ki Onorab Georges in dir, i dir annou suspend 91, be mon pou demann Onorab Georges menm keksoz ki i ti dir mwan en fwa.  Letan mon ti move i ti dir be, li ki Order ki prezan ki vin in place.  Si nou suspend sa, oli the fall back position dan sa Standing Order?  E pa zis sa, pa zis sa Mr Chair.  I dir ek ou,  ‘’any of these Orders may with the leave of the Speaker, now it’s the Chairperson, obviously i apply to the Chairperson.  We will leave.  Is it proper pou nou grant leave?  Annou pran en vot, annou deside.  FPAC a pran sa desizyon apre.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non, mon pa pe pran okenn entervansyon ankor.  Bon ok.  Desizyon ki mon pe pran, ok? PS Finans in donn son komitman ok?  In donn don komitman, i annan serten travay pou li al fer, pou li revwar rent ki STB avek Departman Tourizm pe peye avek Espace.  Pou li al revwar lagreman.  Antretan pou negosye avek STB, avek Departman Tourizm pou komans bann demars pou rod en lot lokasyon.

        CEO STB in donn son komitman li osi.  Swa pou vin devan FPAC ou menm devan Lasanble pou donn sa bann lenformasyon ki Lasanble pe rode.  Desizyon se ki sa bann, CEO STB i ava zwenn FPAC pandan Recess.  Si fodre ler nou reconvene an Fevriye, si zot santi FPAC ki sa bann lenformasyon i devret vin dan nou Lasanble, zot avan anmenn devan Lasanble.  PS i anmenn bann desizyon ki in pran an konsiltasyon avek Departman Tourizm avek STB, ler nou reconvene pou nou kontinyen deba an Fevriye.  E lo sa note nou pou pran en vot lo sa 3 Heads.  Ok, avek en bi ki parey mon’n dir sa bann lenformasyon i vini.

        Me PS depi o komansman nou bann deba dan Lasanble in fer plizyer commitment pou dir ki i annan bann quarterly review tou e mon ti a kontan ki nou ganny en garanti osi tou avek PS Finans ki STB avek Departman Tourizm i a osi tonm dan sa quarterly review ki ou a kapab vin report back to the assembly.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

PS Finans, mon oule en komitman lo la.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair, letan nou pou fer quarterly review tou Minister e tou budget dependent entities ki budget in ganny mete a zot dispozisyon i pou dan sa quarterly review e STB e Departman Tourizm osi pou ladan.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS Payet.  Bon, lo sa not nou pou pran en vot e nou ava pran en vot lo bidze STA pou komanse. Non, nou pa’n pran en vot yer.  I tonm ansanm anba Departman Tourizm.  Bon, nou pran en vot lo Bidze STA.  Non, non, i en Head separe, me i tonm anba Departman Tourizm.

        STA i lo pa 430 ziska paz 433.  Sonm R19.909 milyon.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Yer PS ti dir avek nou ki i tonm ansanm, se pour sa rezon nou pa ti kapab pran en vot yer.  Pa konnen si nou kapab ganny en nouvo leksplikasyon.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes PS.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mr Chair, zis pou klarifye.  Departman Tourizm avek STA ou bezwen pran li ansanm.  En sel vot.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

STA ek Departman Touris.  Ok.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman, mon pe zis donn en warning ki poudir sa lafason ki zot pe ale, nou pou vot kont, i pa pou pase e zot pou bezwen vin avek en supplementary o pli vit posib.  Nou ti pe dir konsernan pou koupe.  Pou koup serten keksoz.  Zot pa pe ekout nou, napa problenm si zot pa pe ekout nou.  Letan nou vot kont la, avek tou sa bann keksoz ki nou’n vwar.  Mon espere ki poudir lepep Seselwa i ava konpran e ki zot, zot ava pran zot responsabilite.  Akoz nou pou vot kont.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Non. Non.  Onorab De Commarmond, nou pou kontinyen al lo bann issues and all that.  Nou’n ariv en pwen lo sa vot.  Nou a pran e vot e nou ava take it from there.  Ok?

        Bon, nou pou pran vot lo Departman Tourizm avek lo STA ki vin ansanm.  Departman Tourizm i lo paz 424 ziska paz 427 sonm R15.575 milyon e STA paz 430 ziska paz 433 sonm R19.909 milyon.  Tou Manm ki an faver?  Okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Clerk.

MADAM CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Pou sa enn Bidze mon’n rikord 13 Manm ki’n vot an faver e 14 Manm in vot kont.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon, Bidze pour Departman Tourizm, sonm R15.575 milyon e Bidze pou STA sonm R19.909 milyon pa’n ganny aprouvasyon Lasanble Nasyonal.

        Nou ava pran aprezan Bidze pou STB.  STB i trouve lo paz 434 ziska 437 sonm R147.275 milyon.  Tou Manm ki an faver?  Okenn Manm ki kont?  Madam Clerk.

MADAM CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon’n rikord ankor enn fwa parey oparavan.  13 Manm in vot an faver e 14 Manm in vot kont.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Madam Clerk.  Savedir Bidze STB, sonm R147.275 milyon pa’n ganny aprouvasyon Lasanble Nasyonal.

        Bon, avek sa nou ava eskiz Minis avek son delegasyon parmi nou.  Zis petet mon ava donn laparol PS zis pou donn en leksplikasyon lefe kis a Bidze pou sa 3 Heads pan ganny aprouvasyon.  Donn en pti pe leksplikasyon pou manm piblik, pou nou Lasanble osi tou konnen kwa ki arive prezan.

        PS Payet.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Order, order.  PS Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mr Chair, zis pou azoute, nou pa ankor pran the final vote of the Bill.  So aktyelman , akoz nou annan en Mosyon ki nou kapab spend sa R2.7 bilyon zot pou kapab spend ziska the final.  Me selman once ki nou pran the final vote of the Appropriation Bill la desizyon a ganny pran si zot pou ganny allocate dan Bidze.  Mersi.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

I ava en desizyon final.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

E sa Mr Chair, i tonm egzakteman an Fevriye parey nou ti pe demann zot pou fer.  Zot latet i tro dir.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Bon nou ava eskiz Minis, PS Lafortune, CEO Madanm Francis parmi nou e larestan delegasyon. Mersi bokou.

THE MINISTER AND HIS DELEGATION WAS EXCUSED FROM THE HOUSE

 

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, avan nou pran en Break mon a zis atir latansyon Lasanble e manm piblik osi deor ki nou pou pran en Break 30 minit.  Nou a retournen 11.15am e 11.15am nou pou pran NDEA.  Nou ti komans touse NDEA, me la nou ganny son CEO or whoever is in charge, Mr Quinn ki pe vini pou vin reponn kestyon.  E petet mon a zis gid Lasanble ki nou pe antre 11.15am.  Annou pran NDEA ziska pli tar 12:30 kot nou ava fini avek NDEA  e nou a kapab pran en vot lo son Bidze.  Ok ? Pou nou kapab kontinyen apre midi.

En moman. Yes Onorab Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Yes, Mr Chair.  Anba son Lalwa Oditer Zeneral son Bidze i bezwen pas devan FPAC.  Nou tou nou konnen poudir Oditer Zeneral in pass away e personn pa ankor ganny apwente e vi ki ti annan eleksyon, Bidze Oditer Zeneral pa’n pase devan FPACNow, lot problenm ki nou annan se ki avek Commitment ki Minister Finans in donnen, Oditer Zeneral ti prepar en original budget pou li fer serten son bann odit ek son bann travay.  Which means ki prezan si nou pou annan sa porsyon kot nou kapab pran Bidze apre Recess,  eski nou pa kapab regard avek Minister Finans why not ki nou pa pran Bidze Oditer Zeneral apre ki FPAC i a’n ganny sans vwar son Bidze pou nou konnen ki konponan par egzanp outsourcing bann odit ki in mete in terms of finans ki in mete e si i pou bezwen plis, prezan nou a kapab donn li plis larzan.  Mon ti oule zis raise sa matter. Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  PS Payet, son gidans i ti’n mete Lofis Oditer Zeneral ki nou pou pran ozordi.  Me lefe ki ankor nou pou kontiny deba an Fevriye.  PS Payet, nou a kapab postpone Oditer Zeneral, non ?

        Ale PS Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Wi, zis diskisyon.  Letan mon ti’n fini prepar lo sa indicative time table, nou ti’n diskit avek son Deputy ki i feel ki letan sa nouvo Oditer Zeneral i ganny apwente.  So i think by February i pou’n fini ganny apwente hopefully,  so i kapab vini, vin defann bidze.  So nou kapab postpone pou Fevriye.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi, i ava fer bann prosedir.  I a kapab pandan Recess osi, FPAC i a kapab scrutinize.  Wi.  Ok.

        Onorab Ramkalawan koman Chairman FPAC.  Koman Chairman FPAC ou dakor ki pandan Recess zot ava scrutinize, Bidze Oditer Zeneral?

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Yes Mr Chairman.  Mwan mon pare pou travay.  Se sa bann ki pe taye ki pa konnen ki zot pe fer ki annan problenm.

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, bon.  Nou ava adjourn ziska 11.15am.

(BREAK)

 

NATIONAL DRUG ENFORCEMENT  AGENCY -NDEA 

 

MR  DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon, nou ava kontiny nou travay avek deba lo Bidze pou 2017.  I would like to welcome the delegation for NDEA.  Minister Larue, Mr Liam Quinn, Mr Fanchette.  I haven’t got the list of officials in front of me.  Mr Fanchette and Ms Pool.  Ok.  Thank you.

        With this session we can either, if your questions, your queries is for Mr Fanchette or Ms Pool or Minister Larue, it can either be in English or Creole.  But please with respect for Mr Quinn, if we direct question towards Mr Quinn, please let us use English.

        So, welcome to the National Assembly.  I think the 1st time NDEA was here we have a brief presentation of NDEA and NDEA was  supposed to come back with some more information on budget proposal and so on.  So, we will take it from there.  If we’ve got any information with regards to the queries,  either PS Payet or Minister Larue, then I’ll give you some time to give the information to the Assembly and then we can move on with questions.  Thank you.

        Minister Larue?

 

MINISTER MITCY LARUE

Mr Chair.  De Manm Onorab Leader Lopozisyon ek Leader of Government Business e tou bann Manm Onorab.  Tou bann dimoun a lekout, bonzour.  Mr Chair, mon ti a kontan zis fer en pti lentrodiksyon avan mon pas laparol avek Mr Quinn.

        Bon, Lazans NDEA ti ganny formen an 2008 e zot ganny dirize par en Act.  National Drug Enforcement Act ki ti ganny aprouve an 2008.  Son misyon nob se pou administre, kordin e enplimant zefor Nasyonal pou konbat bann lofans drog.

        Nou travay tre pros avek Lapolis, gard lakot, FIU e nou bann partner aletranze.  Parey tou Manm Lasanble i konnen,  sa fleo drog dan nou pei i enn ki pe detri nou bann zenn, nou bann fanmir e nou sosyete annan-tye.  San pran an kont kouler, stati, laz, Larelizyon ou politik.

        I en lalit Nasyonal kot tou Seselwa i bezwen konsernen pou trouv en solisyon.  Nou bann travayer dan Lazans i vreman determinen anver zot misyon nob e zot pare pou travay avek bokou plis viger an 2017 pou arive attend nou bann lobzektif prensipal.

        Nou’n pare pou travay avek tou dimoun dan sosyete.  NGO’s, sekter piblik, Lasanble Nasyonal e nou bann partner aletranze e menm lokal pou anpese ki drog i antre dan pei e anmenn bann ki’n vin viktim sa fleo pou ganny swen neseser atraver reabilitasyon e servis aftercare.

        Me pli en portan se vwar en lafen avek bann gro trafiker ki pe vin pli ris san bezwen travay o depan bann endividi e fanmir ki pe vin pli mizer.  Sa pe osi ogmant krim e vol kont bann touris e sa i prozekte en tre move limaz pou nou pei.

        Nou bann azan dan NDEA zot fer en travay nob menm anba bokou kritik e souvandfwa zot lavi e menm lavi zot fanmir i ganny menase. Me zot determinasyon i donn zot kouraz pou kontinyen sa lalit pou kapab sov nou bann frer ek ser Seselwa ki nou tou nou kontan.

        Mon demann tou dimoun pou zwenn avek mwan pou remersye zot pou sa bann bon lannen travay dir e ki Bondye i protez zot e zot fanmir dan tou zot parkour.

        Me mon ti a kontan dir zot osi pou pa tro trakase lo bann menas akoz dapre nou Act, Lartik 15, clause 6 i fer provizyon pou bann dimoun ki esey atak oubyen anpes NDEA fer son travay e i menm annan penalti ki al avek sa.  So sa i en rekonfor.

        E nou Act osi i fer provizyon ki Lasanble Nasyonal i resevwar nou rapor anyel e pou lannen 2015 nou’n deza table sa rapor avek Lasanble.  E mon donn zot mon langazman ki tre byento nou pou table rapor 2016 dan Lasanble Nasyonal.

        Bidze Lazans NDEA an 2016 ti R59.928 milyon e sa ti ganny revize e vin R61.492 milyon a lafen lannen.  E Bidze ki nou pe demann laprouvasyon Lasanble ozordi i R64.773 milyon e sa i en logmantasyon R3.281 milyon.  Sa Bidze, pou permet nou ranforsi bann travay ki nou pe deza antreprann o nivo lokal e enternasyonal.  E parey zot a vwar anba nou bidze i annan 3 progranm.  Enn i governance management, administrasyon e intelligence administrasyon.

        Dezyenm se ranforsisman loperasyon e trwazyenm se ranforsisman envestigasyon.  E sa CEO pe pli tar donn en pe plis detay lo bann detay bidze sak sa bann progranm.

        Sa Bidze si i ganny aprouve pou ede ranforsi e amelyor nou travay an vi lentansite sa problenm e ede atenn lobzektif sa 3 progranm ki pli tar zot ava ganny detay parey mon’n dir.

        Mr Chair, zis pou azoute.  Nou pe deza revwar travay NDEA.  Diskisyon in komanse kot nou bezwen konsolid travay ki pe deza ganny fer e fer bann reform pozitiv baze lo sityasyon aktyel o nivo Nasyonal e enternasyonal.  Sa komite o nivo ki mon ti mansyonnen dan dernyen Lasanble lo Question time, byento pou ganny etablir kot son rol e manda a ganny donnen en plan stratezik a ganny met an plas.  Tousala avek bi ede elimin sa fleo drog dan nou pei.

        Sa reform ki nou pe antreprann pou osi pran an kont welfare nou bann Staff.  Nou pou bezwen revwar zot Scheme of Service, revwar en pti pe nou sistenm lentelizans.  Get dan sistenm sekirite, proteksyon nou bann Staff.  Reviz lafason ki zot deklar zot byen avek bi anpes koripsyon.  Entansifye training e retraining.  Met an plas en Polisi lo recruitment e bann kriter apropriye.

        Met an plas en Polisi lo training.  Retansyon e menm en succession plan.  Revwar lafason ki nou travay lo bann Por e bann lakot an zeneral.  An menm tan regarde kote nou kapab koup okenn gaspiyaz.  An se moman Lazans NDEA i anploy li 130 Staff.  Ladan nou annan 116 Seselwa, nou annan 14 etranze.  Sa i enkli 2 Irish ki enn i nou CEO.  4 Endyen, 8 Nepale.  Nou Deputy CEO i deza en Seselwa.

        Lazans i osi annan en fleet 38 transpor.  8 pou Lazans e lezot transpor nou lwe.  Pri transpor lwe i varye ant R460 par zour ziska R800 par zour avek diferan car hire operator.  Nou osi annal bann lakaz ki nou lwe.  Par egzanp La Digue nou lwe en lakaz ki pran ziska 10 zofisye e nou pey R18 mil par mwan.  Lo Pralin nou annan en lakaz ki nou lwe ki pran ziska 17 zofisye alafwa  e nou lwe R42 mil par mwan.  En lakaz pou sa 8 Nepale, R12 mil 650 par mwan.

        E lakaz pou sa 4 Endyen, R7700 par mwan e 5 lezot lakaz.  Enn R20mil.  2, R7 mil.  Enn, R25mil e 3, R10 mil.

        Mr Chair, avek sa lentrodiksyon mon a demann tou Manm Onorab isi prezan, pou donn nou zot sipor pou ki nou a kapab kontiny sa lalit kot sa fleo e fer nou pti Sesel vin enn ki meyer kot tou dimoun a kapab viv dan trankilite e dinyite san okenn lafreyer e lenkyetid ki zot zanfan a kapab tonm viktim sa fleo e kot bann trafiker a kapab ganny deal avek san okenn lafreyer e faver.  Se sa mon swe, se sa swe Gouvernman e se sa swe Lazans e mon sir sa osi i swe Lasanble Nasyonal.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minis.  Wi Minis?

MINISTER MITCY LARUE

Chair, mon kapab demann CEO to elaborate on the different programs.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes, CEO Mr Quinn.  Briefly please.  Yes CEO, go ahead.

CEO LIAM QUINN

Good Morning Mr Chair.  The Honorable Leader of Government Business and the Honorable Leader of the Opposition and the Honorable Members of this House.

        It is my pleasure to present to you the Honorable Members of this Assembly the case and favor of the NDEA Budget for 2017.  I’m accompanied in this House by the Deputy Chief Officer who’s already been introduced to you and by also the Director of HR and ADM, Mr Pool.  Who is also includes that of financial control.

        The budget for this year has been carefully calculated in conjunction with the department of Finance.  Working to achieve a manageable budget to enable the agency to deliver on its mandate and requirement under the NDEA Act of 2008,  under the enforcement of the Misuse of Drug Act, 2016.

        As with other department of State the budget has been formulated into programs and for the purpose of NDEA budget there are 3. 

        Program 1 deals with the governance management, administration and intelligence management.  The program comprises of the executive management of the Agency which is responsible for the preparation and maintenance of budgets financial reporting and expenditure –  ensuring transparency and responsible spending so that the agency may continue its operation without a hindrance.

        This program also manages general business functions including but not limited, to the handling of all incoming and outgoing correspondence, reporting to stakeholders,  statistics management and maintenance of logistics;  security of all assets’  compliance with procedures for prisoners and witnesses in its care’; management of human recourse;  Training, discipline;  compliance with operation procedures and management of assets.

        Program 2 comprises of all the operation and departments of the agency and these include the field operation which is required to ensure a visible present to gather and use information to target major drug suppliers leading to their arrest.

        To carry out searches of persons, buildings, lands, boats, airport and ports.  To carry out special operations as required and to assist the teams on Praslin and La Digue to carry our duties on Inner Island and as necessary assist them ….on outer island.

        The border control unit is a unit that is based at the airport and the port.  These units are required to ensure a visible presents at the airport and the port to carry out random and targeted screening, stop and search incoming and outgoing passengers and cargo.  And gathering information which is fed back into the intelligence department.

        We have a marine unit which functions include the carrying out of observations and searches of other marine units, cargo and …….. as necessary to gather intelligence.

        Monitor and check all suspicious transactions and movements of boats at sea.  Follow up with intelligence on activities observed which have a land connection and to work closely with the Police and the Coastguard Services to coordinated operations at sea.

        We have a support service unit which includes the special operations units which targets specific individuals and groups involved in drug trafficking, importation and distribution.

        We also have a K9 unit.  This is a support service for all our operation units operation on the islands, the airport and the ports. 

        Program 3 is concerned with drug enforcement investigations.  And this includes an investigation unit and an asset unit.  The investigation unit processes al prisoners and documentation relation there to, including those release on bail and those who remains in custody.  Liaison with the Attorney General’s Office and with both State and Defense Council.  Preparing affidavits and case files.  Attending courts interviewing the suspects.  Liaison with the police and other law enforcement departments.  Organizing court appearances, processing arrestees and guiding investigations within the legal framework.

        The asset unit is tasked with the establishment, the asset of drug dealers and their associates.  The unit works in unison with the Financial Investigation Unit in the prosecution and the investigation aspect of such cases.

        The allocations as such funds the 3 programs necessary to manage the agency though the common areas are as follows.

        Program 1, the agency has taken for an allocation of R31.442 million which is 48% of the total.  And program 2, the request is for an allocation of R24.154 million which is 37% of the total.  And program 3, R9.176 which represent 14% of the total sphere of 64.5773 million.

        These programs are being subdivided into 2 main groups namely ‘’wages and salaries’’ and ‘’goods and services.’’  The ‘’wages and salaries’’ aspect of these allocation represent 44% of the entire.  And ‘’goods and services’’ represent 56%.

        Several of the categories of expenses included have increased over the corresponding period for 2016.  These increases are due to a number of factors and in relation to basic pay this basically, the increase here has been accounted for by the additional  our Staff, 18% in additional Staff.  Our scheme of Service increases in the 13th month salary.

        These also an increase of 33% in our housing allocation which is accounted for our …increase cost of interisland housing.  Housing for witness protection, expatriate houses and rent for office space at the Port Authority.

        Increase of 20% in consumables has been accounted for by the necessity to provide for food and other agency for other agency personal …. for ‘Operation Netwayaz.’

        Food for special operations and sea patrols.  Food for prisoners detained at NDEA stations and interisland operations.

        An increase in the telephone allocation of 18% is due to the additional of office provisions and overseas operations.  Other offices expenses has an increase of 11 % recorded here and these increases have spread across the board transitively in relation to the K9 unite.

        Cleaning expenses have also increase by 43%and this is been due to the addition of boats and 2 extra buildings that has been required during the year.

        Overseas airfares having increase by 26%.  This is accounted for by the Staff training overseas and also attending drug enforcement seminars.

        Ferry fares an increase of 24% this is due to the frequency of interisland operations and prisoner transfer.  Transport cost and the necessity for assets and operation teams to visit the inner islands rather.

        Ship repairs counts for those additional 11%.  Repairs to donated boat and maintenance of existing vessels.  Information awards, payment for confidential information and operations.

        Within those allocations there are a number of high cost items.  Beginning with the transport where there was an allocation of R2.4 million.  This is accounted for the necessity for the agency to hire transport in addition to the transport that is owned by the agency.  A total of 36 cars between hired cars and owned cars are utilize son a daily basis by the agency.  Car hire accounts for R5.024 million.

        All of the above are subject to review and the imposition of further restriction with a view to reduce in the overall cost to the agency.  All the payments include payment to Indian and Nepalese security and maintenance staff.  And these payments range from $700 per month to $1200 per month.  Those who receives an allowance of R3000 per month.

        The NDEA salaries begin with non-agent  salaries at R7,800 per month.  Moving to junior and senior agents with the ranges R14,581 rising to R28,000.  Senior management agents R37,207.  The chief officer R44,222.

        Gratuities account for 15% percent of salaries after 5 years and every 2 years thereafter. 

        Expenditure on hospitality includes expenditure on meetings and seminars for staff.  Visiting stakeholders.  Staff gatherings and training, graduation and presentation.

        The resources of the agency have already been outlined by the Minister.  It consist of a total of 130 agents, consisting of 116 Seychellois, 2 Irish National as of now.  3 of others completed their assignments towards the end of 2016.  Sorry, 2 others.  And are not as of now in the employment of the agency.  Replacement will however be consider in early 2017.  There are 8 Nepalese Nationals and 4 Indian National.  The total male staff is 95 and the total female staff is 35.

        This agency have develop from a small fledging agency to its present structure.  With staff distributed into different specialist department that includes deployments on Mahe and Praslin, on La Digue,  at the airport and at the port.  The establishment have an Investigation Unit and Surveillance Unit and Intelligence Unit,  a K9 Unit, a Marine Unit,  a Security Unit and Administration Unit.

        The achievements of the agency, in order to put the 2017 budget into context it is necessary to outline in summary,  the agency’s broad achievements and direction during 2016.  And from early January all the indication were that it is going to be a busy year.  By the end of the month activities by agent has resolved in the arrest of subsequent registry of cases.  For drug related offences have been made in respect of 72 individuals.  Also evident from the beginning of the year was the fact that heroin have now been well established as the drug most abused in the county.  Early statistic revealed that 63% of those arrested were found in possession of heroin while 26% had been arrested for the second drug of abuse, this is carnivorous ……       A second early indication showed that virtually all of those who abused drugs are male, just 10% of those arrest have been female. 

        Another phenomenon indicated was the wide spectrum of society who take drugs, with those arrested coming from the total of 23 different occupations.  Figures also revealed that drug abusers is high among those who are unemployed, with 26% of those arrested not being in fulltime employment.

        Ages also are  a factor in drug abuse with the highest category, 44% of arrest is of persons under the age of 30.  And  the full range of ages of persons arrested ranged between 14 and 60. 

        In terms of outputs for the year, show that more than 1159 persons have been arrested for drug related offences.  The total amount of drug recovered has exceeded 100 kg of heroin and over 6 pint, 164kg of cannabis  ……  91 Cannabis plants were also recovered.

        The outcome of NDEA activities can be measured in a number of ways including the number of arrest and the number of core convictions.  And in this regards during the year to date more than 40 trafficking cases have been dealt with and a similar number are pending before the Supreme Court.  Lesser cases involving hundreds of possessions. Possession cases are being dealt with in the Magistrate Court.

        The outcome of the trafficking case has resulted in several major drug dealers being sent to prison and to having their assets seized.  Meanwhile 4 suspected major drug dealers who are wanted by the NDEA remain outside the jurisdiction and are being sought to stand trial in a number of serious cases.

        While the enactment of a new Misuse of Drugs Act on the 1st of June last year, abolishment in the minimum sentences.  Maximum sentences apply from prison and is still applied in the more serious cases.  The second life sentence to have been imposed under the amendments to the Misuse of Drug Act, 2014 was applied in a drug importation case involving a Kenyan National who was arrested at the airport, having been found in possession of heroin with the street value of R2.4 million.  The sentence was imposed in the Supreme Court on the 10th of February, 2016.

        And the second search conviction was recorded later in the year when a Nigerian who arrived in the Seychelles on the 1st of June last year from Madagascar was intercepted at the International Airport.  And a body scan revealed that there was 2187 rounds of heroin concealed in his body.  He pleaded guilty in the court with charges of importation of controlled drugs and was subsequently sentenced to 10 years imprisonment.

        Later in the year, a number of drug distribution operation were disrupted.  During the course of one such operation over 50 separate drug packages and a number of digital scales and the largest ….of paraphernalia and utensils were recovered and removed for investigation.

        This is typical of the type of operation that dealers set up in several areas around the country.

        On the international front, on the 26th of March last year, based on the intelligence an operation was conducted in associate with the Seychelles Coastguard under Sea Operation following reports of a possible attempt to import illegal drugs.  Members of both agencies deploying coastguard vessels while members of the operated in support of the Sea Operation.  Following several hours at sea one of the vessels was boarded and the crew taken into custody.  In a follow-up operation involving land-based assets further searches and arrest were made and a second boat was recovered. 

        On the 28th of March, 2016 3 of those arrested was brought before the court and remanded pending further investigations.

        In follow-up investigations, NDEA agent arrested a further 3 persons and heroin worth  Of 3.5 million was recorded during the course of the number of search operations.

        Substantial amount of cash and drugs continue to be seized as the ongoing NDEA campaign against the full…… season assets of drug traffickers intensifies.

        Cash amounted to almost R1.5 million was seized during the past year. 

        The substantial amount of drug that has been seized by the NDEA caused a security issue and association with the Supreme Court in October of last year,  98.5 kilos of heroin that was seized by a joint NDEA/ Coastguard patrol on the 16th of April an 11 Iranian was arrested and the seizure was destroyed by Order of the Court.

        The order was made after details of the exhibit were admissive during the trial of 3 of the Iranians, thereby allowing the destruction of the exhibit in accordance with resent provisions introduced under the 2016 Misused of Drug Act.

In terms of countering of Active the drug threat to Seychelles, the NDEA has since its inception, seized more than 25 million US Dollars worth of drugs from its inception in 2008 up to 2015.  And this years alone has seized drug with a street value of 27 million US Dollars.  Each year the agency arrest approximately 1 thousand individuals and carry out some 8 thousand stops and searches.  These includes searches of individuals, houses and lands.  And it should be noted here that many of the searches and arrest are in respect of repeat offenders.  Active patrols prevent the drug dealers from freely carry out their operations.

        In terms of the challenges facing, the drug and this Drug Enforcement Agency,  I can say that Law Enforcement is bound by strict rules of Law, evidence, powers and procedures that by their nature limits it effectiveness.  The NDEA operates strictly within the Law.  It is not sufficient just to label somebody a drug dealer based on their lifestyle or positions.  Legally obtained evidence is a prerequisite in every case brought before the Court.

        Evidence that’s used in drug trials is analytical tested and forensically examined before the Court will accept or be submissive in support of a prosecution.

        The business of drug trafficking is both risky and lucrative.  And a number of traffickers despite the enormous risk involved to themselves are prepared to take.  The principle driver of the drug trade  is indulgently due to a strong demand from among sectors of the general population combined with an endless source of supply in production emanating from overseas.

        In terms of the affectedness of the NDEA, I can say to the Honorable Members of this House that the NDEA has an enviable record of seizing drugs and bringing offenders before the Courts.  As evidence, in the various communiqués issued during the year testify.

        Currently the agency is processing over 900 case that are in various stages of prosecution and the legal process.  These include processing to the forensic science of ………  the Attorney General’s office and ultimately the Courts.

        Drug addiction does not confined to any particular group, class, creed or color.  And the NDEA does not profile any of those arrest or searched or detained into any of the above categories.  Statistics provided in recent times by the NDEA confirmed the agency effectives and supply reduction aspect of dealing with the problem,  by seizing drug on the high seas and elsewhere on land. 

        The agency has proved that it has the capacity to carry out major investigations and to bring those responsible to justice.  Supply reduction is just one facet of the drug problem and many of these were considered in the 2016 Misuse of Drug Act.  All those include the requirement to treat addictions  that will allow addict to recover.  To provide rehabilitation that will facilitate and educate on the dangers that drug abused causes to the health and the social order and to reduce the demand for drugs by education among the youth.

        There is a very determine effort at all levels to ensure that delivery of all of this services.  The new Act also provides legislative provisions to facilitate and ensure that delivery of these services to the public. 

        Every country in the world is struggling to deal with the drug situation.  This fact was evidence at a recent conference in Sir Lanka where all of the delegations outlined the difficulties faced in their respective jurisdiction.  Not just by Drug Enforcement Agencies but also by several societal organization who are trying to cope with the many and varied aspects of the problem.

        It has been radically proved throughout the world that enforcement is just one aspect of the problem that requires to be addressed, should bring the matter under control.

        The NDEA is fully committed and is taking the lead as part of the national effort to deal with the supply and demand and drug addiction.  The 1st steps for all who are interested in addressing the issue surrounding drug addiction is to recognize its complexity.  And the necessity for the active involvement of the various agencies and bodies who are in the position to deliver the services require to address the problem. 

        In terms of training of members of the agency, it remains an integral part of the agency’s strategy into 2017.  With various workshops and seminars being considered, to ensure that its agent are completely conversant with the revised legislation, procedures and its mission.

        There are planned reevaluation of our operations at the ports, at the airports, on Praslin and La Digue and the use of the agency’s marine assets.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Excuse me Mr Quinn.  Please can you wrap so that we can have sometimes for questions, with all due respect?  Can you just wrap-up, sum-up and will have some time for questions.  Thank you.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

I will move quickly on to an important aspect of the presentation that involves the threats to Seychelles.  Drug traffickers applying their trade in the south Indian Ocean have targeted Seychelles waters in their attempt to avoid being detected on previously used routes of east coast of Africa.  Several unsuccessful attempts have been made by drug traffickers on the routes to enter Seychelles waters.  We are satisfied based on our intelligence that the combined efforts of the coastguard and the NDEA have successfully prevented these attempts by Asian-based traffickers to bring drugs into the country.

        We are satisfied that local drug traffickers are in contact with operatives from countries where drug trafficking is the principle source of funding for groups such as Al Qaeda and the Taliban.  The concern is that the funding for drugs entering this country contribute directly to terrorism and cause a potential threat to this country.  Intelligence leading to this seizures that have an international component is highly classified and is impart to the NDEA under strength of haven’t been given the highest security clearance by international agencies and on its proven ability to deliver illegal finish.

        The Government contracts the provision of expatriates services to the NDEA that relate to the provision of strategic direction and management to the agency to entirely experience and qualified individuals with the skills necessary to implement change and direction.  Not only to implement the provisions of the Misused of Drug Act but also to manage issues that directly relate to the national security of this country. 

        The contract influence is strict, mutual, non-disclosure clause between the government and the management consultant to prevent disclosure of secret information related to identities, operation deployments and capacities involve in some of its operations.  Consequently disclosure of the terms of the contract must remain confidential.  However I want to assist this Assembly by outlining the broad parameters of how these services are provided and in what areas their expertise is deployed.

        The visible services provision of these Contract involves the payment of 4 full times staff during 2016 and these include the Chief Officer, the Deputy Chief Officer, Officer in charge of investigation and Officer In charge of Marine.  Payment for overseas and international operations associate with intelligence operations in country throughout the region.  The balance of the allocation provision is utilized to finance the cost of expert witnesses and translators from overseas.

        The Service Contract apart from managing the day to day business of the NDEA, also involves high level of security issues that directly affects state security.  Details of all such expenditure and associate information, associate with intelligent gathering are subject to a bidding neutral non- disclosure clause.  Such agreements are common with country in cases involving mediation, into impartial injury and other cases by agreement between Council and the injured party, the Attorney General and members of the Judiciary.  The terms of such agreements are bidding and ….in terms of Court.

        In terms of objectivity the presence of an international element in the Drug Law Enforcement in such a small country brings a level of objectiveness and independence  necessary to protect these agents from those who are trying to corrupt them.  Crime involving large amounts of money and monies worth is highly corrosive, pressures of all kinds are brought to bear on operatives including peer pressure, fear, family and society.  Dealing with those issues is not easy and unfortunately many of our agents fall prey to those corrosive elements.

        Corruption is the biggest challenge facing the agency in the endless attempts by the endless attempts by the criminal against to corrupt the agency and its agents.. This is done in a number of ways from blatant offers of cash awards to entice them to destroy evidence and give false testimony to the courts.  Sadly we lost 4 agents during the year to this type of criminality and a further 15 since we began.  It is a ………. to everybody that the NDEA operated a zero tolerance to corruption and in this regard looks to the public to ensure that this remains the case. 

        The budget proposed for 2017, that the NDEA is seeking approval from this House are based on its past achievements and its hope and aspiration for 2017.  I asked that all of the issues raised be carefully considered and I seek the approval of this Honorable House. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you.  Thank you Mr Quinn.  We will now open the floor for integrations, for questions.  Onorab Roucou.

 

HON CLIVE ROUCOU

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bonzour Minis, bonzour Manm Onorab.  Kestyon pou Minis silvouple.  2 kestyon silvouple.  Mon anvi demann Minis si son Minister a lavenir i annan plan pou recruit plis Seselwa oubyen understudy sa bann etranze ki la an vi ki sa bann pozisyon ki sa kantite etranze pe pran pe pran en bon porsyon nou Bidze ?  E an relasyon avek sa logmantasyon dan Bidze parey Minis in dir, nou ti komans avek en ven-tenn azan, la nou’n ariv apepre 130 azan.  Me ven-tenn azan drog in ogmante, 130 azan drog in kontinyen ogmante menm.  Ki garanti ki sa Bidze an plis la pou fer sir ki nou kapab deal avek sa bann problenm drog dan nou pei ?  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Minister.

MINISTER MITCY LARUE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab.  Parey ou’n dir, nou kantite azan in ogmante pou ariv 130 wi  e dan nou bann azan nou annan osi etranze ki mon krwar definitivman nou pa pou kapab do without etranze.  I annan serten domenn dan Lazans, serten landrwa dan Lazans ki nou bezwen vreman lekspertiz etranze e nou bezwen etranze.  Par egzanp mon a donn ou en legzanp.  Kot nou gard tou nou bann egzibit, tou nou bann keksoz, se en etranze ki gard sa.  I tenir sa, i fer sir ki bann keksoz pa perdi.  Ok ?

        Lasirans i bokou plis.  Me i pa vedir ki dan lavnir nou nouvo recruitment ki nou’n fer lannen pase, boner lannen pase,  nou’n recruit en kantite Seselwa.  Plis Seselwa.  Parey ou’n vwar nou annan 130, nou annan zis 14 etranze.  Savedir plis Seselwa ki pe travay dan sa Lazans e ou’n dir poudir drog in ogmante.

        Mr Chair, mon krwar sa lalit drog i enn parey nou dir ki tre konpleks, i annan en kantite keksoz ki vin avek.  i pa vedir ki, parey ou pe dir, i annan plis drog akoz nou pe vwar bokou plis dimoun ki pe servi drog.  Nou pe vwar kantite drog,  en pti pe dan tou bann distrik nou vwar bann diferan group ki pe servi drog.  Me an menm tan nou’n vwar achievements osi ki NDEA in fer.  I annan bokou keksoz ki’n ganny fer parey nou’n dir.  In arrest en kantite dimoun, kantite dimoun in al dan prizon.  I annan dimoun ki’n al reabilite apre nou annan bann seizure ki nou’n fer lo bann assets, lo bann drog li menm ki’n vini dan bann bato.

        Me avek sa Bidze ki nou’n gannyen definitivman nou kapab fer plis me si Bidze i ganny koupe definitivman la i pou fer nou retourn an aryer.  Akoz mon’n dir en pti pe bann keksoz ki nou anvi fer, ki nou pou fer dan nou Reform e sa nou kapab fer li selman avek en Bidze ki soutenab.  Ki soutenab parski de tanzaot ou tann diferan Manm Onorab i dir ou  oubyen piblik an zeneral i dir ou dan tel landrwa zot bezwen pas en pe pli souvan, i annan bokou drog ki pe ganny sirkile e otomatikman la ou bezwen annan sa lafors, sa progranm 2 i fer ki sa bann dimoun i bezwen bouze, al regard e fer bann travay neseser.

        So i enportan pou nou kapab kontinyen sa travay e ranforsi definitivman.  Akoz nou, nou bi prensipal se otan ki nou kapab elimin, me nou bezwen tou dimoun pou vin ansanm pou nou kapab fer sa sirvey.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Minis.  Onorab Afif.

HON AHMED AFIF

Mersi Mr Chair.  My question will be directed at Mr Quinn.  Mr Quinn thank you for your explanations about some of the expenses. 

        I just wanted to ask you some more detail in particular about the 2017 expenses as shown on page 245, table number 2 and on the item call ‘’other uses of goods and services’’ you have R15.6 million that’s nearly R45 thousand per day. This is a lot of money  This is a lot of money.  Will you be able to tell us the top 3 items within the 15.6 million and tell us the amounts.

        And also just a comment on the amounts that you spend for transportation and travel.  You stated that 5 million of that above 10 million for argument sake –  half of it is for hired vehicles and then you also stated 2.4 million which is spent in fuel.  It’s just to say that with 5million you could have bought 12 or 13 cars.  Which I see the NDEA using the similar types of cars, I mean  the Creta or something.  You could have bought 12 in a year with that.  Plus you have 2.6 million for maintenance and you wouldn’t need more than half a million for maintenance.

        So I’m a little bit worried by the size of the magnitude of these numbers.  I understand the use of 26 cars, but even then the amounts are inflated as far as I see and I think you could do a lot better.  I’m not deputing the type of operation that you do.  But in terms, this is a budget exercise here and I find that the amounts are way above what they should be. and please provide us for the 15.6 million of ‘’other goods and services.’’  What are these items please?  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Tank you Hon’ble.  Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

The highest expenditure item under this category is one which is being allocated for payment of foreign consultancies.

        As I explained in my opening statement, there is a non-disclosure clause in the contract between government and a management consultancy team in relation to disclosure of how this expenditure has been incurred however.  I am authorized  to tell you that the 4 agent who are paid from this amount are paid more or less in line with those paid to the police who are police officers from South Africa who are in the similar position to us.  This amounts for approximately half of the allocation.

        The remainder is expanded on the Intelligence Services that relate to the security of this country in relation to essentially how the drugs are sourced, where the drug are sourced especially in fact that these drugs are sourced overseas and organized from approximately 7 different countries.

        Some of which as I’ve already said,   emanate from countries where the Taliban and Al Qaeda are the main beneficiaries from drug trafficking.

        The allocation on transport as you say it is high and we are looking at it.  We will be examining it more closely during 2017.  We are looking at purchasing cars to reduce the amount of money that is being spent on hired cars. 

        The difficulty with purchasing cars is that sometime we need cars at sharp notice.  The hire charges are something that we don’t have any control over.  Law enforcement cannot do anything without moving.  It has to move to get to location and to get to locations quickly and to transport agency and to carry out their operation. 

        So I’m quite determined that we look at those figures into 2017.  In terms of the allocations on fuel which obviously is directly related to the spending on hired cars.  We do have a strict control mechanism in place which monitors the use of vehicles and also the mileage incurred and it’s compared to the actual use of fuel and expenditure.

        All the cars in the agency are subjected to this control including the car that I drive myself. 

        The third item that you raised is related to the security enforcement which amounts to the 3.4 million.  This ……. of that is expanded on expat salaries to Nepalese and also 1.2 million in extraordinary operation cost. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you Mr Quinn.  Hon’ble Afif.

HON AHMED AFIF

Thank you very much Mr Quinn.  I find it a little bit odd that we cannot be privy to what is the amount that is paid under a private contract.  I can understand that we should not be privy to information that you have received with respect to pirates etcetera – that I can understand, but this is a budget exercise and contracts with any firm are subject to review and subject to full scrutiny.  There is nothing in the Law that prevents that and I don’t accept that agreement.  And if 4 people are earning the amounts that you state, it amounts to about $20 thousand per agent, per month.  So R300 thousand.  This is what are being paid and I don’t know who much you pay for Intelligence, I don’t want to know who you pay the Intelligence to.  But I don’t think it amounts to that much.  And you are now saying this we are not allowed to question either.  I find this very odd and I think in the name of transparency we need to have a little bit more information about this and otherwise I don’t find that this sum which is by far way too high for an agency to spend is justifiable.  These are huge amounts, this is taxpayers money and we are just being told this is security, we can’t tell you what it is.  But we know that 4 agents can’t cost that much, because we do employ agents in other department in Government.  We employ Doctors, Engineers, Accountants.  They don’t cost that much.  And this is tax payers money and we can’t accept that.  And when we look at your fuel amounts and your maintenance amounts, they almost 3 times what they should be.  There is something wrong in the manner in which this is administered and I think we seriously need to look at…  We are not interfering with the drug operation, we are just saying you are spending far above what you should be spending ……. operation.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Yes Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

Yes, firstly.  Perhaps I didn’t explain fully exactly how a portion of the provision of say the sole sub provision of 9.9million………….  Approximately 1.5million  of that has been designated rather for the payment to for foreign translators, foreign expert witnesses.  In relation to the remainder, approximately half of that, let’s say about 3.7 million is expanded on the payment of the 4 agents.  Now this amounts to a payment of approximately 5 thousand, 5 hundred Euros per month.  Not 23.

        So, those figures and multiply by the number of agents per month amount to just under half of the 8million which have been designated under this fund.

 

HON AHMED AFIF

Mr Chair, may I.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes.

HON AHMED AFIF

If I use your figure of 5,500 you are getting 4 million rupees which will go towards the agents.  It’s not even half of the 14.  Because after your 15.6 you remove 1 and a half.  So you are down to 14.  Half of that is 7million.  You‘re 4 million for your agents.  What is the rest of the money used for?  There’s R11 million which is unaccounted for.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

Sorry, the balanced 4 million is as I’ve already said you know,  are allocated as a service provision contract between the Government of this country and a management consultant.  This sum has been set aside for the provision of those services which as iv already have said relate to the security of this country and the necessity to protect this country from the evils of drug abuse.

        In terms of the amount of drug that have been seized alone this year, that have emanated from overseas and particularly from Asian Countries amount to more than 375 million.  The amount of drug that have been prevented this year, should be the last year obviously 2016.  Had those 4 shipments got in, will have amount to R1.4 billion.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you Mr Quinn.  I’ll just take a question arising.  Hon’ble Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Thank you very much Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, I would like to clarify.  Originally in the question asked in relation to the sum which was ‘’other uses of goods and services,’’ which was 15million 651.  Did you say that half of its 7.8 million goes to that part which we are discussing or was it 14 million?

        And then the second thing that I would like you to clarify.  You’ve talk about a non- disclosure provision in the contract.  I would like to ask, in the interest of transparency,  can such a provision be moved so that non-disclosure can be related to specific operational issues for when it comes to a budget exercise so that we can have clarity as to where the money is going actually?  Thank you

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Yes, Mr Quinn.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

Yes, just to clarify the question that is being asked.  The payment to the 4 NDEA Agents amount to just under half of 4 million.  The balance has been allocated for the provision for its services provision contract between the Government and management consultancy towards the protecting the security of this country.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes, Hon’ble Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Mr Chair, just to guide you.  The question was, you have in the budget 15.651 million under ‘’other uses of goods and services.’’  That was the question asked.  You were then asked to give us the breakdown of the 3 main expenditure head, which you said one of the main expenditure heads was 7.8 million.  Did you use that figure or did you give another figure.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, Ms Pool.

MS JACQUELINE POOL

Sorry, If I might clarify for I think there’s a bit of confusion.  The 3 heads that he is talking about,  the 1st one is 9 million.  Now, within that 9 million, that is for foreign consultancies.  What Mr Quinn is trying to say to you is that a part of that which is between 7 and 8 million is for this contract that he is trying to tell you about.  The remainder is for other consultant which are ad hoc.  Like we’ve got an expert witness coming in to the country next week. 

        The remaining amount in that 15 million is for security enforcement and for transport that makes up that amount.  Thank you.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you Mrs Pool.  Honorable, question arising or.  No?  Ok.  Hon’ble Ramkalawan.  Question arising?

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Can we be given details of the contracts.  What contracts? Don’t use the security clause.  We just want to know, we are not interested in names or whatever.  But if we could just have certain details.  What contracts?  Because we are already spending so much on agents, foreign agent. 

        The contracts, are they with locals, with a special company overseas or what? 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

As I have already outlined to the House, this is a services provision contract.  A services provision contract between the Government and management consultants to provide services to the NDEA which directly relate to the enforcement of the drug laws in this country and as to how they emanate.  …as we know the ……. drugs arriving in this country in reality arrive in this country from abroad.

        The bulk of the agent in fact all of the agents that are employed openly in the agency perform the operational aspects of drug enforcement.  But before the drugs ever arrived in this country there is an intelligent requirement as to where often these drug are going to arrived.  Who is behind it and how there are funded?  And it is this aspect of the work which is bound by the confidentiality clause.  In fact all aspects of the contract have subject it a non- disclosure clause.

        But what I can tell you is that the contract involves a provision – a services provision to the NDEA in the form of agents such as myself.  Such as the officer in charge of investigations;  the officer in charge of the Marine and the officer in charge of the Deputy Chief officer.

         These are the agents that are openly employed within the agency.  Together with our Seychellois colleagues  -cooperate, you know,  to ensure that drugs do not take over this country. 

        Where they emanate from is a requirement which basically is not within the capacity of the agent operating entirely within this country or say amongst people who do not have the capacity to operate at that kind of level.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Mr Quinn.  Hon’ble Simon Gill.  Question arising.

HON SIMON GILL

Good afternoon everyone.  My question is directed to Mr Quinn.  Now, me I wanted to get some more clarification on some of the statement that you’ve made.  Is it correct to assume or is it a real fact that there is a company overseas and in that company you have agents who collects intelligence information  and then supply the NDEA in Seychelles upon which your agent locally here act on?  Is it correct to assume this?

        And then I will ask further question so that I’m clear what we really in.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble Simon Gill.  Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

Yes, first of all the company that I refer to, the consultancy that I refer to are not based overseas.  But that does not mean that there is not an overseas elements to the work that they do.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Hon’ble Gill.

HON SIMON GILL.

Ok, they are not based overseas.  Now the contract between the company and the Government of Seychelles is it a local contract or an overseas contract?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you.  Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

First of all, I want to tell you that I am a party to this contract and there is a non- disclosure obviously – elements to it.  And that means that the business of the company or the identity of it in fact are also bound by this clause of non- disclosure.  I am basically trying to assist the House in explaining exactly how this company operates the services that it provides.  The benefits that it provides in this country and within that to satisfy the Members of this House.  That the services that is being provided through the services of this company are essential in the administration of the work that we do in the NDEA.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you.  Hon’ble Gill.

HON SIMON GILL

Yes.  Ok.  We need to move step by step.  Mr Quinn, now.  another assumption is that the company is not overseas or is not an overseas registered company, it is a company registered in Seychelles and providing this intelligent information to the Government or to the Country.  Now, meaning we are paying a consultation fee to a company and then we are paying another fees to agents employed by this company with which the Government has a contractual obligation.  Is this correct?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mr Quinn.

CEO LIAM QUINN

This is not entirely correct.  First of all that to the best of my knowledge whether the company is registered I am not aware of.  In terms of the payments to the company are made on a quarterly basis for the services provided by the company to the Government.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Hon’ble.

HON SIMON GILL

Now, Mr Quinn, you’ve been working here for quite a while now.  Are you satisfied that we have the correct operating structure in place for this country to be able to put the drug phenomenon under control?  Why this question.  Because drugs continue enter this country.  We are paying, we are spending so much money on agents, on contracts, on contracts or agency who are employed by contract.  I don’t know which is not clear.  So what would be the optimum structure that would advice this government that would be able to put this drug phenomenon under control.

        Because I’m sorry, as an ordinary citizen I think that we are losing this battle after spending and we continue to spending so much money in this structures that is actually in existence with overseas agent, with local agents.  We don’t know who are the parties to these contracts and you said you are not party to it but the people out there they are not really too happy about this situation.  Thank you very much.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble Simon Gill.  Mr Quinn.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

To answer your question as to whether the operation and structures is efficient to counter the drug problem in this country.  First of all I can say that the drug situation in Seychelles is under control.  That I can guarantee you.  I’m not saying that  the drugs are not entering the country.  Drugs are …….. and they exist in every country in the world.  We are facing an avalanche of drugs coming into this country.  Emulating from country in one Asian country along we have 200 thousand hectares of the poppy plants.  And tthey are producing over 5 thousand tones of heroin every year. 

        People based in this country are tapped into that supply and there are a number of major groups operating in this area, transitively maybe 5 major groupings and about, let’s say 10 sub groupings and maybe up to 30 people who will be in the close network.  And in all about a 100 distributors who are involved in distributing, importing and distributing drugs into this country.

        For us to control it as I’ve said in my opening statement, we have to operate within the law.  We are operating within the law.  We have arrested more than 1 thousand people every year over the last 5 years.  Some of the principle drug dealers have been put out of business including 4 of them who no longer live in this country.  We have seized the assets of some of the biggest drug dealers and continue to do so.  As I’ve already stated there are 40 cases pending with the FIU in relation to assets that have been acquired by drug dealers.  I will not agree with you that it is a losing battle.  It is an ongoing battle.  It is a battle in progress but we are not losing it.  And  the evidence is there by the size of the prison population, by the extent of which assets have been seized or by the ongoing work being done by the agency.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Mr Quinn.  Mr Fanchette wants to add something.  Please.

MR NICOLE FANCHETTE

Mersi Mr Chairman.  Mon oule zis eklersi en pti keksoz Mr Chairman.  Parey Onorab Gill in dir ki drog konmsi i annan plis dan Sesel, mannyer i a pe trouv sa.  Nou, nou en pei ki antoure avek delo.  Kot ou get ou vwar delo e laplipar drog, drog pa manufacture Sesel.  Drog i sorti Afghanistan, Pakistan you name it ki pei i sorti.  Nou bato, nou annan en pti bato nou.  Nou bato ki nou annan, nou pa kapab ariv sa zistans pou entersepte drog.  Nou napa bann gro bato ki nou kapab, parey en mother boat ki apre nou kapab annan pti bato lo la pou nou kapab entersepte avek en bon sistenm radar lo nou bato kot nou kapab vwar tou bato kot i vini.  Ou konpran ?

        Apre osi si demen bomaten nou ti ganny en lord, nou lev-e nou dir ok annou fer parey Philippine annou touy tou drug dealer.  Drog mon krwar ti pou fini.  Napa en pei ki kapab elimin drog.  Drog pou annan dan en pei.  Nou a kontrole, selman nou pa pou kapab elimin li.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Mr Fanchette.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

I don’t want us to divert from the point that has been raised.  Mr Quinn, you have said that there is a contract with a company and you’ve also said that you don’t know whether that this company is registered or not.  But you’ve also added that you seem to be part of that company if I got you right.

        How can this be, I mean there is something which is not clear there.  If it’s a company that you are dealing with and you don’t know whether its registered or not, then it could be that you are dealing with an illegal company and this would not be the NDEA working within the confines of the law because you’ll be breaking the law.

        If you are also involved in that company whilst at the same time being employed and again I stand to be corrected,  if you are also employed by the NDEA and maybe this will be a question –  are you being paid by the NDEA or are you being paid by this company?  So this would mean a direct conflict of interest.

        And this of course would have a direct effect on the amount that it is being proposed and I can tell you we, up to now we are not happy with the breakdown of this 15 million.  From what we’ve heard so far, for us it is obvious that this amount is an inflated amount and some people are having a very good time on tax payers money.  So please give us exactly where you stand, were you and the other officers, the 4 officers stand vizavi this company.  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Mr Quinn.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

First of all in relation to the first part of your question,  I am not part of this company and the company  is part of a contract with the government.  So I can only presume that it is a perfectly legal entity.

        Yes I received as the other expat agent received a payment from our services.  On the basis of being an expat in this country and they also receive a salary from the NDEA.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Hon’ble.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

But you have no knowledge of this company?  When you say it’s a contract with the Government,  i think it’s a bit vague.  Is it a contract between the NDEA and that company or is it a contract with St House and that company?  Please give us some concrete information because as I say again right now it is simply not clear. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Maybe Minister can you clarify or PS Finance.  Please.

 

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, zis letan nou pe ekout deba, mon krwar nou osi as Minister Finans nou bezwen rod en pe plis klarifikasyon lo sa Kontra akoz i paret parey Mr Quinn i dir ki i napa konteni sa Kontra.  Me selman nou avek NDEA, rod konteni sa Kontra e  vwar ki annan ladan e kwa ki zot kapab devwale – parey in dir ki i annan en clause ki dir i annan keksoz ki zot pa kapab devwale.  Me nou, nou ava vwar ki konteni nou kapab donn en pe plis lenformasyon lo la.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS.  Mon ankor annan 3 Manm, 4 Manm ki question arising.  Eski apre sa repons PS zot oule ?  Yes.  Ok, Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Question arising.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

En moman Onorab.  Lezot Manm zot non i lo lalis, nou annan en issue devan nou, nou pe zis fini abord sa issue.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Question arising and it relates also to what PS for Finance have said.  I think we should get this clear and no disrespect meant to anyone.  This House will not vote on any allocation which is not disclosed.  None.

        Now, it is up to the NDEA to maintain its position and respect this clause of non- disclosure.  But this will mean that this part of the allocation will be struck off.  We cannot, we really cannot as legislators vote on any single amount in this budget that we don’t know about. 

        Now, we must find a way.  Mr Payet has given us a way around it.  This Assembly must know.  Otherwise we just move on and we strike this off and we go on other matters.  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Before we get the panel to answer.  Hon’ble Georges.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mr Chair, my question is only partly on the issue of this arrangement. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

You will take the other part later on.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

But it will take us into another direction, which is why I’ve refrained from putting my hand up at this point.  But I wish to be heard on the issue of this arrangement such as it concerns the NDEA.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Go ahead.

 

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Quinn I think the issue which we have is one of information or lack thereof and transparency or and lack thereof. 

        I think that you will understand that it is very difficult for us to take a step into the dark and that’s precisely where we are now.  But worse than that, I think if I may say we are seeing a repetition of what we saw with the FIU.  And I think this is what is worrying some of us and certainly worries me.  That the NDEA has become a self- fulfilling prophecy.  You start off as a small fledging agency.  You raise the issue of drugs and more drugs, you find more and more money.  You look for a foreign interlocutor which runs the agency and because of that it needs more money and the spiral disappears into the heavens.  And this is our worry.

        And we are doubly worried and I am doubly worried when I hear as justification all that we see is drugs worth billions.  With that argument, judges will be asking for a hike in salary because they put away criminals who will otherwise be breaking in to houses and stealing billions.  Everybody will use the same argument.

        Somebody’s paid a decent day’s work and cannot say.  ‘’Ah, yea,  but look at the results that I’ve achieved.  To justify a higher income.’’

        Having foreigners is another issue and I think it’s one perhaps that you ought to consider.  This House is not bias against foreigners, we understand that in certain crucial circumstances and situation we do need a foreign element and foreign assistance.

        But once again, a country which have a Seychellois President, Speaker of the National Assembly, Chef Justice and Attorney General to name but 4 people can certainly find suitable Seychellois, pay them adequately to do the same job as with all due respect –  you and the other foreigners in the NDEA are. 

        So I think this is the issue with regards to the management of the agency by this nebulous foreigner company that is the issue here.  So perhaps during the Break while you are addressing the issue of the contract you can consider all of these issues as well.  Because they will come back and I will ask that we go into a different direction with the money allocated then simply business as usual.  For the same reason that Hon’ble Simon Gill said and that is we are spending a lot of money but we don’t seem to be getting the results.

        I think that in this context that I certainly and I think a lot on our side and perhaps the whole House will like to ask you to consider the future of your agency.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble Georges.  I will also take Hon’ble Basil Hoareau.

 

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, I don’t know whether Mr Quinn will be in a position to answer my….  Firstly, I don’t believe there is a confidentiality clause in the contract that this will be applicable to this Assembly.  I don’t believe on the basis on the basis of that confidentiality clause the NDEA cannot disclose to us, to this House the terms and provisions of this contract.

        What it cannot do obviously will be sensitive information which might have been provided under the terms of a contract.  But not the terms of the contract itself.

        And I wanted to know was when was the contract signed? And how long is the duration?  And from what Mr Quinn has told the House, the contract is not between the NDEA and the company.  It’s between the Government of Seychelles and the company.  Correct?  Ok. 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you.  I will take before the panel will clarify.  Hon’ble Ramkalawan or Hon’ble Afif.  One of the 2 I’ll take one.  Ok.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

No, I think, I mean from the information that I have received,  I think it will be good for the Leader of the Government Business or the Minister to get in touch with State House, because it looks as if the contract was signed between State House.  Signed by the former President Mr James Michel and that company.

        And we need to know.  So I think it’s important because as Mr Georges said we are all groping in the dark and there is a figure of 15 million which is staring us in the face and we need clarity.  Thank you very much.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble Ramkalawan.  I missed Hon’ble De Commamond.  But just before that, Hon’ble Afif, you raised the first question, one last point please.

 

HON AHMED AFIF

Yea, just one last point.  I find it strange that Mr Quinn says that he doesn’t know much about it, when the Financial Intelligence Unit comes to us to say how they are doing such a good job about knowing who you deal with.  Companies in Seychelles must know who their directors are, who the owners are.  And yet with a local company the NDEA doesn’t know who it’s dealing with.  Where is the due diligence.  Are we being told the truth.  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  Hon’ble De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Thank you Mr Chair.  Good afternoon everyone.  Mr Chair, with what I’ve heard so far and I know that I have not participated in the debate yet.  I want to move under Order 22 that we postpone the debate and that we don’t vote on this Head until when we come back.  And in the mean ime all the clarifications and whatever will be sought so that we get more

clarity on the issue.  I will like for somebody to second it, and then we vote.

        But while I’m on that also, I would like maybe in the light of what I’ve heard so far that the NDEA clarifies a few things also; like for example there’s allegation that members of certain families working within the NDEA having some businesses within the NDEA.  I believe it’s not ethical, I think that this could be clarified as well.  And one thing,  when we look at the amount being put for the NDEA,  we would also like to note that the high officials of the NDEA, maybe should be included in a list of people for the Public Declaration of Assets which we passed.  We should extend this list also and add people like Heads or Deputy Heads of the NDEA as well.

        And lastly, I would like to know the opinion of Mr Quinn with his vast knowledge and expert in this field of drugs.  If he could enlighten the Assembly on whether there are countries in the world that have legalized and depenalized soft drugs like Cannabis, Marijuana and if among those countries, if there are Small Island State and also with your expertise if you could enlighten us on if Seychelles take this step to depenalized and legalized soft drugs like medicinal Cannabis or Marijuana,  will we be able to reduce the number of people affected by drugs, will the state earn more income, revenue from that business?  And I believe also maybe the NDEA will reduce drastically its budget and at the same time hard drugs will be abated and the youth will not be killing themselves by the hard drugs.

        So the Government will spend less money and achieve more.  Are you sharing this opinion?  Let us know.  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble De Commarmond, you’ve stated a Motion.  Do you want the panel to answer the queries first, then you can move your Motion.  Ok thank you.  Will give the panel a chance to answer the different queries.  Mr Quinn and Minister, PS Payet.  Whoever, you can actually take the bits and pieces and as much as possible give the clarifications and then will go back to the Motion.  Thank you.  Mr Quinn.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

Yes, Mr Chair.  Just to begin with the issues raised by Hon’ble Georges about being kept in the dark and I think there is a misconception about the amount of this allocation.  The heading that we were discussing for ;the goods and services,; the amount is 15 million.  But the sum that we are talking about here in relation to the contract is 1.9 million.  That is the first thing.  Well sorry, its 8.3 million, because the rest have been explained by Ms Pool. 

The wages and salaries that are being paid out to agents on the ground here amounts to just under half of that.  Its 3.8 million.  The balance of that money is accounted for, in fact all of it is accounted for in the contract between Government and the company of which I’ve already said I am not part of.

        In relation to the reference that you made to the FIU, I wasn’t present during, I’m not party to what happened when the FIU were here.  But as I’ve already said I have assisted the Assembly here and disclosing the fact that 4 agents are in fact paid all this –  this sum and that this sum amounts to about half of the allocation.  It works out at roughly about R80 thousand per month, per agent.

        So, I hope that clears of the aspect with the first issue that you raised.

        In terms of the NDEA being a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I cannot accept that.  It’s simply is not true.  We don’t invent anything.  The results are tangible to be seen, there are not easily arrived at.  Ship loads of drugs do not appear on the horizon and announce their arrival in Seychelles.  People who go abroad and register as citizens and get passport, this information does not come to us with a Christmas card.  This is hard solid intelligence work.  It has to be confidential.  Otherwise intelligence as you will note simply does not exist.  Intelligence work exists in a level of darkness as you said.  But it is not darkness for darkness sake, it is basically confidentiality otherwise you done have an agency.  Otherwise you will not have results.  You will simply not have results by standing on the street and driving around in cars.  You may get some people having taken possession or smoking cannabis basically in some of the areas around town.  You will not get the serious drug.       So, in terms of the foreign interlocutor, this is not true.  The company that the Government have signed a contract with, basically is operating,  as I understand and again I’m somewhat in the dark here, I’m not part of the company.

        I basically provide the services, part of the services that is contracted by the company with the Government.

        In terms of what you talked about, justifying opposition on the base that we get more drugs so we should be paid more.  I don’t agree with that comparison.  Every seizure that has been made, has been made on the basis of hard graft, has been made on the basis of work and has been the outcome of good intelligence work.  Work that is done in corporation with intelligence agencies from other countries in the region and in fact other international companies.

        Our success in seizing those drugs is basically being admired by several countries in the region.  To the extent that in the next week or 2 we are hosting a group of intelligence experts from above who wants to study our system to how this agency is so successful.

        So far from being a self-fulfilling prophesy,  we are an agency that are delivering on the ground, solid, work solid results and there are there for everybody to see.  The courts are an example ……. what is happening.  Some of the cases that we have produced before the court as you know, being a Lawyer –  have lasted for 4 years and some of them have been, in fact one case took 7 years or 9 if I’m not sure – to settle.  Such as the complexity and the arguments and legal arguments that are surrounding these cases.

        In terms of local versus foreigners,  there is a particular problem in a small country such as Seychelles where people are connected.  So many people are connected and related and also the fact that these drug dealers basically use all of their energy and all of their money to try to bribe.  To try to destroy, the agency.  And they do this on a regular basis and sadly in some cases they succeed.

        We have one agent who was offered R1 million to destroy a file.  This is the kind of pressure that is put on local people.  So it is not just a question of you know, preferring foreigners over local people.  These are issues that are real.  And these are issues that I think is part of the reasons why it is necessary to have foreign consultant in the country.  Apart from whatever expertise and management that we can bring to the agency and direction, strategic direction.  I think there are other local issues that certainly local people are quite happy.  And I think if you speak to any of the agents in the NDEA they will agree with me here.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Hon’ble.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman can I asked Mr Quinn a simple question.  There’s still other question?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes ok.  Mr Quinn I think Hon’ble De Commarmond’s point.  You have not actually covered his queries.  Please.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

Obviously the number of other issues arose in the questions raised.  One was whether or not the clause in the contract applies to this House.  Again I am unable to advice the House on the legality of that aspect of it.  When the contract was signed, my understanding is that the contract has been in place for a number of years – exactly I’m not sure.  I think maybe at least for the last perhaps  maybe 6 years. 

        There’s some reference made to relatives of agents working with the NDEA and running business within the NDEA.  There are some agents who are blood relatives of each other and relatives through marriage working in the agency.  This does not present a problem for us. Some of those agent met while working in the agency and feel in love and got married.  The fact that we still employed them I think it will be very unfair to seize their employment of the basis of what is perfectly natural occurrence.  They also happened to be our best agents, some of our best agents and their loyalty is unquestioned.

        And so far as agents running business, within the agency I am not aware of that.  Some agents may have businesses in their private life which have been approved by the agency and which don’t interfere with the work of the agency.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Carry on Mr Quinn.

 

CEO LIAM QUINN

And there was one other question that was raised by the Leader of the Government Business in relation to the legalization of Marijuana.  As the House knows, half of the United States, of the States in the United States have made laws either legalizing medicinal Marijuana or Marijuana for recreational purposes.’’This is undoubtingly affecting the debate on the whole business on Marijuana.  We are not immune from that debate here, we are not immune from the discussion.  It is as you know has been discussed while in this country.  We have some people who are very strongly advocating that we should go down this road.

        But what I can tell you certainly I’m not sure whether it’s a step in this direction but people who are arrested now in possession of small amounts of Marijuana that is 10 grams or less or 3 plants or less,  can still be arrested but they will not be prosecuted in respect of the force to possessions and …… if they agree to be assessed.

        And there’s also a provision to be cautioned, where somebody is found in possession of 0.1 of a gram  of Heroin or less.

        So technically somebody can be cautioned up to 4 times in a year for the 1st year and 3 times in a year after that under the new Act.  It doesn’t legalize the drug but it’s certainly alters the way that the country now deals with people who takes small amount of drugs.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, thank you Mr Quinn.  Hon’ble Ramkalawan.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman, I respect what Hon’ble De Commarmond said earlier about postponing the debate.  But I’m going to make one point,  the NDEA, just before Mr Michel resigned, the NDEA was no longer reporting directly to State House.  There was a change in the chain of command.  The NDEA moved and under the Ministry of Home Affairs.  So therefore any contract that the NDEA had with other companies or whatever should also have been moved to the Ministry of Home Affairs.

So do I take it that the Ministry of Home Affairs should have a copy of that contract and I think any decision that we take it would be very important and Hon’ble Hoareau has clearly said that nothing should be secret as far as the Assembly is concerned in terms of a contract.  I think that before we take any decision, we should be able in a sealed envelope to have the copy of this contract so that if we decide to have a look, well to call back the NDEA in February, then we know that the contract is here with us –  with the Speaker, so that we can move in all transparency.  Because as it is right now, let me just make another point.  Mr Quinn is supposed to be working as the director of the NDEA.  So basically your salary should be in ‘wages and salaries’ because you’re the director of the organization.  But from what you’ve said in ‘other uses and services’ in that 15. – call it 16 million, you also get a chunk from there. 

So, I mean, I’m sorry but it’s not clear and I don’t like what we are faced with right now and I think as members of this Assembly we have a duty to ensure that there is clarity and I’m sure with the experience that you have Mr Quinn, you will agree with me that right now there is no clarity.  I mean if I as a layman I’m asking questions about a company which you are dealing with and you yourself cannot give much information about this company, then I’m even more lost as it were.  Because the question then is who knows about this company?  It looks as if it’s some kind of a ghost company.  But there must be a medium dealing with it. From what you’ve said,  you’re not medium, we are not the medium.  So we have to know who is that medium so we can eventually dissect and understand what it’s all about so that we can move forward.  Because presently, the only thing that I am tempted to do is to propose that this sum of 15 million is halved.  Or taken out completely.  I mean this is the only thing that for us would make any sense.  Because we are dealing with a phantom company and when we try to ask whether it’s an overseas company you said no it’s a local company.  Basically you said it’s a local company.  But a local company should be registered.  A local company, I mean…  We are in the realm of the unknown and mysteries don’t really… I’m not an fancy of mysteries.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you Hon’ble.  We are back on the point of where Hon’ble De Commarmond raised the Motion.  Ok.  Because there is no clarification, we need more clarification.  And we know the PS’s position.  PS for Finance.  I will go back to Hon’ble De Commarmond to….  the panel? No, but the panel is not giving new information, we are still in the dark, we still go back to your point.  You’ve proposed a Motion, if you want to move your Motion to postpone debate.  Like we said this morning, the National Assembly has already approved the sum of R2.6 billion for the operation, which includes the operation of NDEA like salaries and all that.  That will continue to be paid.  We will reconvene in mid February.  So if the Motion is moved, then we can actually take the NDEA.

        Ok, Hon’ble De Commarmond.

 

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mr Chair, I’ve already moved the Motion.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, seconded by Hon’ble Ferrari. Ok, so we will take a vote on the Motion.  To suspend debate on the budget of the NDEA until we come back in February and NDEA and PS Finance will come back with further information and clarifications. 

        So we take a vote. All in favor?  Ok Madam Clerk I think it’s the whole House.  Any one against?  Ok. Madam Clerk.

 

MADAM CLERK

Mr Chair, thank you.  Mon’n rikord 26 Members voted in favor of the Motion.  Thank you.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you.  So the Motion have passed, which means that the National Assembly has not taken a vote on the budget of the NDEA and any further debates on NDEA has been suspended till we reconvene in mid February. 

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN 

But Mr Chairman.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

I said we need a copy of that contract.  Copy of that contract needs to be in hand of the Assembly.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes, the information will be provided.  So we will excuse Minister Larue, Mr Quinn, Mrs Pool, Mr Fanchette.  We excuse you and we thank you for the time you’ve spend with us.

       

MINISTER MITCY LARUE AND NDEA DELEGATION WAS EXCUSED FROM THE HOUSE

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Avek sa mon a zis petet anons nou travay pou apre midi.  Ok, mon’n lir sa let ki Onorab Sebastien Pillay in fer referans avek bomaten.  Pou Anti- Corruption Commission ki nouvo, ki napa en bidze pou li kapab koman operate and all that, we need to tackle son Bidze e apre parey lezot i ava kapab dig in dan sa porsyon Bidze.  Nou pou pran li premye apre midi ler nou retournen akoz zot bezwen koman operate, komans rod en lofis.  Komans anploy sekretarya Staff and all that.  Ok.

        So nou pou pran premye apre midi Anti-Corruption Commission e apre PS Finans i ava gid nou.  Annou sey mentenir en pti pe letan apre midi, nou konnen nou’n overrun nou letan avek NDEA.  Annou ki nou kapab donn Anti Corruption Commission  being new 30 a 45 minit e apre anba gidans PS Finans nou ava pran lot constitutional body.  Ok ?

        Avek sa PS ou annan en lide apre lekel apre Anti- Corruption ? 

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mr Chair, nou ti pe propoz Anti -Corruption Commission, Public Office’s Ethic Commission, Office of the Ombudsman and National Human Rights Commission.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, mon krwar that should be enough.  That should take us ziska 5er.  Ok.  So nou ava adjourn ziska 2er pou nou re pran nou travay.

(BREAK)

ANTI CORRUPTION COMMISSION

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon, bonn apre midi tou dimoun ki a lekout e ankor mon prezan en pti leskiz pou bann rezon teknik ki nou’n komans en pti an retar.  Apre Minis parey mon ti’n anonse nou pou pran Bidze pou Anti- Corruption Commission e mon a les PS Payet pou entrodwi bann zofisye ki avek nou dan Lasanble apre midi.  PS Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Thank you Mr Chair.  Pou premye nou pou pran Anti- Corruption Commission e son CEO, Ms Lucy Athanasius i avek nou.  Mon ti a demann li pou fer en brief introduction pou komanse.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  CEO Athanasius, pleases.

 

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mersi.  Bonn apre midi tou Onorab e dimoun a lekout.  Mon annan plezir pou entrodwi the Anti- Corruption Commission.  I en organizasyon piblik ki ti ganny table anba the Anti-Corruption Act, 2016.  Act 2 of 2016 e i annan son manda pou edik, pou detekte e pou fer lanket dan bann ka koripsyon.  Ok?  Nou osi nou sipoze endepandan, self-governing e nou pa sipoze anba Lotorite okenn dimoun ni okenn Lotorite.

        Mon dir sipoze, akoz deza nou pe ganny dir ek DPA konbyen nou sipoze pey nou Staff.  E sa pou en Anti -Corruption Commission i en keksoz ki nou pa vwar ki ase bon.  Anyway.

        Anti-Corruption Commission i ganny gouvernen par en Board of Commissioners ki ti etabli anba the Act, comprising of 5 manm apwente par Prezidan , upon the recommendation lo Constitutional Appointments Authority.

        Prezan, presently Chairperson i Hon. Justice Duncan Gaswaga.  The Vis Chair i Mr Daniel Belle e 3 lot Komisyoner se Mr Hardy Lucas, Ms Marie-Claire Elizabeth e Mrs Priscille Chetty.

        Mwan, mon the CEO e mon ti ganny apwente par Prezidan lo rekomandasyon Anti- Corruption Commission ki osi zot sipoze pe donn mwan direksyon kontrol ek sipervizyon.

        The CEO Anti-Corruption Commission i responsab pou enplimant bann desizyon the Commission pou son effective management e pou fer lezot operasyon ki dapre Lalwa i demande.

        An bref manda Anti- Corruption Commission se pou investigate parey mon ti dir, fer lanket dan bann ka koripsyon.  Swa ki dimoun in raporte, swa ki nou dan Komisyon nou’n get to know swa dan medya, swa lo Facebook;  swa nou’n tande oubyen nou sispe ki i annan ka koripsyon, nou annan drwa investigate apre detekte, fer le neseser.

        Osi nou bezwen prevant -, fer prevansyon dan bann Lorganizasyon  e dan piblik an zeneral lo ki si sa, ki bann danze Corruption pou sosyete e pou nou byennet.  Savedir nou osi dan sa manda nou sipoze pe fer bann odit, bann sistenm dan bann Lorganizasyon pou fer sir napa bann loopholes ki dimoun i kapab  servi pou komit bann akt koript.

        Osi nou pou bezwen travay ek bann key stake holders parey sivik society, NGO’s, Media, Law Enforcement.  Bann Professional Association, bann lekol; bann kominote lokal pou ganny zot sipor pou partaz sa louvraz, akoz sa louvraz Anti -Corruption i pa zis pou komisyon pou edik dimoun, i pou tou dimoun pran par e pran zot obligasyon dan sosyete.  Ok?

        Bann servis ki pou fall anba COE, sa komisyon i enkli Sekretarya of the commissioners.  Administrasyon finans, operasyon ki enkli lentelizans, investigation;  case working, bann zafer legal.  Apre corruption prevention e osi resers pou get dan bann sistenm, bann process ki dimoun i servi dan landrwa piblik pou travay avek.  Ou bezwen fer bann sesyon ledikasyon, sensitization.  Apre osi nou annan manda pou annan bann relasyon enternasyonal ek lezot Anti- Corruption bodies ek lezot pei pou aprann e pou fer nou benchmarking ek best practice.

        The Secretariat i fer bann secretarial administrative duties pou bann commissioner.  Nou annan en sekreter pou sa.  administration and finance unit will deal with the management of the Anti-Corruption Commission.  Savedir bann finans, Staff welfare, training, office management.  Procurement, payroll, Bidze eksetera.

        IT pou ganny responsab pou fer marse nou Server.  Nou pou bezwen annan en Server dedicated pou nou menm.  Nou pa pou al okenn Server okenn dimoun.  Akoz nou bezwen fer sir nou keksoz i secure.

        Osi IT pou ansarz maintenance and in-house, IT programming and training pou bann Staff.

        Anba dan operation department la kot bann diferan operasyon pou ganny fer parey resevwar bann konplent ek piblik.  Bann formilasyon bann ka ki swa nou pou met pli devan kot Attorney General si nou vwar i annan en ka ki merit ganny persecuted.  Nou pou fer bann investigations, intelligence gathering;  bann lezot legal work parey revwar Lalwa pou fer li pli byen pou byennet lentere piblik pou lentere Sesel.

        Osi dan prevention corruption oubyen si oule apel li Advocacy and Communications Section,  sa pou ganny sarze pou fer egzaminasyon bann sistenm ek process parey mon ti dir across the public sector pou fer ledikasyon, raise awareness, sensitization of the public and private sectors;  osi ek bann zanfan dan lekol akoz nou komans ek zanfan osi pou ki demen ler zot vin bann adilt zot vin responsab e zot pa toler koripsyon.

        I osi nou annan dan nou striktir Research ki vreman, vreman enportan akoz nou believe dan evidence-based  research ki pou byen ed nou pli byen ariv ek bann diferan solisyon ki nou kapab anmennen pou ed konbat sa fleo koripsyon ki partou dan lemonn.

        Apre osi pou annan International Relations Unit ki pou responsab pou international relations e nou pou annan bann diferan regional body, international, UNODC, UN, AU, SADC, COMESA,  e lezot ankor ki nou pou bezwen fer partenarya avek zot e travay avek zot pou byennet Lorganizasyon e dan travay ki nou fer pou Sesel.

        2 keksoz ankor Mr Chair.  Nou ti sipoze ouver an Zanvye, selman sa pa pe arive la konmela akoz Bidze in pran en pe retar.  Nou pou resevwar bann konplent sorti kot piblik oubyen kot bann dimoun dan sekter prive, sekter piblik.  I pou vin laform oral ek ekrir. Ok ?  Selman i pou bezwen swiv bann prosedir, e regilasyon pou annan consistency dan fason ki nou anmas sa data ek fason ki nou pou deal ek bann ka.  San fwa nou pou kapab dir enn in ganny lapliferans.  Nou pa oule sa.  Everything i bezwen straight above board.  Tou dimoun pou ganny deal parey procedure i laid down.

        Nou osi nou pou fer bann investigations lo bann ka ki nou, nou santi ki i annan koripsyon.  Parey mon ti dir pli boner, ki sorti swa dan medya, dan audit reports.  Sorti kot isi, dan National Assembly e lezot lenstitisyon.  E pou fer sr ki nou aksesib ek piblik, nou pe fer fason ki pou annan en dedicated telephone line pou ki dimoun i kapab telefonn en serten nimero.  Pou kapab log zot complain si zot oule fer lo telefonn.

        Nou pou annan walk-ins;  kot dimoun i kapab vini pou annan dedicated complaints manager ki pou resevwar bann complaints.  Tousala i pou ganny fer dan en lasal prive kot nou ete.  Nou pou annan osi mekanizm lo web site ki nou pe al etabli nou web site byento, depan lo Bidze of course.  And pou ki dimoun i kapab raport lo koripsyon online e osi ki zot kapab ganny plis lenformasyon osi lo koripsyon ek travay ki nou dan Komisyon nou fer.

        Avan mon terminen Mr Chair, mon oule zis azout detrwa keksoz ki mon krwar i vreman enportan pou Anti Corruption Commission –  sa dapre best practice.  I enportan ki bann rekizit kle i endepandan.  E dapre Act nou sipoze endepandan, e fotespere nou endepandan.  Specialization.  Nou bezwen annan bann dimoun teknikal ek bann spesyalis akoz bann kalite investigation nou pou annan.  Bann fason ki nou bezwen deal ek bann case.  Nou pa kapab zis pran nenport.  Savedir nou pou bezwen envestir en ta dan seleksyon bann bon dimoun, pey zot byen e train zot. Ok ?

        Nou bezwen annan savedir adequate training.  Lokal e overseas.  Ok?  Apre nou bezwen annan bann resours finansyel, la kot Bidze i vini and the human resources.  Si napa lokal nou pou bezwen rod deor.  Ok? Apre accountability, sa i en rekizit vreman enportan pou sa Commission pou ki nou annan bann regular performance reports ki nou pou anvoy kot Egzekitiv ek Lezislatif e osi pou donn piblik access ek lenformasyon lo ki nou, nou pe fer dan son Komisyon.

        Bann international standards ki set benchmark pou okenn Anti-Corruption Commission i dir ki the following are important.  ‘’Independence and autonomy, specialize and trained staff and adequate resources and powers.’’  Sa osi nou bezwen gete dan nou Act si sa bann powers i ase.  Pour lemoman nou pe fek komanse e mon krwar anmezir ki nou pe grandi, ki pe ganny plis eksperyans, nou e ganny bann ka.  nou bann clause kekfwa pou ganny amande to give us the strength ki sa Komisyon i bezwen.

        Anba the United Nations Convention Against Corruption ki nou en signatory,  i enportan pou konnen ki Article 6 i dir lo preventative Anti Corruption Bodies.  ‘’The necessary material resources and specialized staff as well as the training that such staff may require to carry out their functions, should be provided.’’

        Ozordi nou pe gete, nou pe al get nou Bidze e sa Bidze will reflect whether nou vreman nou pou pran ka ek sa international obligationOk, pou bann country signatory to United Nations Convention Against Corruption, i devret fer ki zot lenstitisyon i annan sa kapasite e sa sipor pou fer son travay byen.

        Apre, the African Union Convention on preventing Corruption and Combating Corruption, paragraph 5 of Article 20,  i state ki bann parties ki nou osi nou signatory, ‘’are required to ensure that National Authorities or Agencies are specialized in combating corruption and related offences by, among others –  ensuring that the staff are trained and motivated to effectively carry out their duties.’’

        Motivasyon nou bezwen fer sir ki landrwa travay i apropriye.  Training ki nou donnen i apropriye.  Saler ki nou donnen, akoz sa louvraz pou enn ki nou bezwen dimoun onnet ki annan lentegrite, ki annan lentere Sesel a ker.  Ok ?  Ki anvi fer sir ki napa bann aksyon koronpi ki pou tir larzan e manze dan labous Seselwa.

        Nou bezwen fer sir ki zot osi zot dan en sityasyon kot zot saler is also commensurate ek risk.  Akoz nou ti tande bomaten bann, en dimoun, mon pa konnen si dan NDEA ti ganny approached pou 1 million pou detri en file.

        Nou, nou pou annan bokou lenformasyon, very sensitive, very strong.  Nou bezwen fer sir ki nou dimoun are not after lining their pockets akoz i annan mankman dan fason ki nou pe remunerate zot.  E ek sa Mr Chair, mon ti a kontan dir, mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.  Bon deba oubyen kestyon i ouver.  Onorab Ferrari.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Bonn apre midi tou bann dimoun ki a lekout.  Mr Chair, madame Athanasius.  Ok, mon ti a kontan premyerman pou komans par dir sa.  Si mon ti konnen poudir madame Athanasius ti travay avek FIU mon ti pou’n konnen la, akoz egzakteman sa ki in dir i fer nou mazin sa ki FIU in dir.  Konmsi how enormous this thing is and how much money you need and things like that.  But that’s an aside.

        Ki mon ti a kontan dir se ki sa body ti ganny set up an Avril lannen pase par ansyen Prezidan Michel e mon premye problenm se ki menm si sa Anti- Corruption Cabinet i ganny dekrir koman, ‘’not subject to the direction or control of any person or Authority,’’ premyerman mon vwar poudir its under the authority of the President who has appointed the Chief Commissioner and the Commissioners.

        Dezyenmman mon ti a kontan raise en flag.  E sa i montre ki mannyer the appointment of those Commissioners should have been held until they could start their jobs.

        Enn bann rezon se ki avek respe Mr Chairman. – enn bann Commissioners se Madanm Priscille Chetty ki dan menm Chambers ki Mr Basil Hoareau.  So mon ava espekte ki Mr Basil Hoareau pa pou partisip dan sa deba.  Me sa deza mon vwar li moman en konfli.  Mon vwar li deza koman en konfli e sirtou son dezyenm problenm se this is the Firm that is used by ansyen Prezidan Michel.  So deza mon vwar i annan en problenm la, dan apwentman sa bann commissioners.  Ok.

        Lezot commissioners mon pa pou fer komanter lo la, me mon annan bann komanter.  Mon pa pou fer selman.  Mon dezyenm pwen se son Chairman, Msye Gaswaga.  Ansyen Ziz Gaswaga.  Fine, ansyen Ziz, but why do we need a foreigner? 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Kontinyen Onorab.  Ok, Onorab Ferrari mon ava entervenir.  Anti-Corruption Commission is a new body.  I premye fwa ki nou pe anmenn en Bidze, ki nou pe appoint en Bidze.  Mon krwar i enportan ki Lasanble, Manm i ganny en pti pe lesplikasyon.  Klarifikasyon.  Ok.

        Onorab Ferrari.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Mon pe zis demande,  nou dan 2017, ki zour e ki lannen nou pou komans trust nou prop Seselwa ?  Eski nou pou fini sa syek an di-z-an nou bezwen en etranz epou head NDEA.  Nou bezwen en etranze pou head FIU.  Nou bezwen en etranze pou head Anti-Corruption Commission.  E la nou’n ariv beyond 2000 e pourtan nou annan en Sef Ziz Seselwa, nou annan en Attorney Zeneral Seselwa.  I annan bann dimoun ki fer zot travay san okenn lafreyer.  So mon pa konpran mwan akoz nou pa kapab get bann Seselwa.

        Mwan mon devret per akoz ti annan en ansyen Prezidan ki ti anvoy bat mwan.  Mon pa per, mon ankor la.  Li i pa la, mwan mon ankor la.

        Me selman, savedir nou pe fer nou travay.  Nou pe fer nou travay e nou pe sey empower bann Seselwa.  Sa i mon dezyenm pwen.

        Mon prezan mon kestyon ki mon ti a kontan demann avek madanm Athanasius is this one.  Vi ki nou dan Finance and Public Accounts Committee nou napa Bidze pou rod ni en forensic accountant ni en legal advisor.  Nou napa tousala, pourtan nou annan en investigation masiv pou nou fer, selman nou napa.  Nou dan FPAC silvouple.  Nou dan FPAC nou napa.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Onorab kontinyen.  Order! order!  Onorab adres Madanm Athanasius through the Chair.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Nou, nou bezwen lekspertiz nou pa pe gannyen ok ?  E nou pe sey fer sa travay nou menm.  Mon pa konpran ki mannyer nou kapab, al ofer  – al donn 8 milyon pou en keksoz ki premyerman mon pa vwar son lendepandans, deza dan son lapwentman.  E ki mannyer nou, nou pou ganny kit deryer kan tou bann resours pe ganny donnen avek en nouvo Lazans.

        Now, sa en kestyon ki mwan mon ti a kontan demande si vreman sa Commission i bezwen tou sa bann keksoz.  Akoz mon’n tann nonm international relations.  Tou sa intelligence, tou sa bann keksoz al fer ledikasyon dan lekol kan ledikasyon i devret vin par the way we behave, the way we as leaders behave.   Se sa ki  devret.

        Koripsyon i pou eliminen ler nou bann Leaders nou behave accordingly.  Alors mon ti a kontan donk, ganny en leksplikasyon lo la e mon ti a kontan dir ki mon pa pe prejudge lefikasite, me selman pou mwan sa ki konsern mwan, si mon vot pou en Bidze it’s going to be for one year.  One year e mon pou anvi vwar rezilta.  Ok ?  Mon pou anvi vwar rezilta.

        Dezyenmman mon pou anvi lans en lapel avek Prezidan pou re nonm sa Board of directors.  Re nonm sa Board of CommissionersIt’s not possible ki dan sa syek ki nou ladan en dimoun e with respect, zot a rapel bomaten, in annan serten keksoz ki n ganny dir ki tantamount to koripsyon.  Depi yer nou pe dir, an relasyon avek sa Msye ki’n nonm sa bann Commissioners.  Eski zot, zot pou investigate li?  Ok?

        So, sa i enportan.  So, si zot oule poudir sa i marse.  Fodre ki Prezidan Faure i rod en fason pou nonm sa bann Commissioners an konsiltasyon avek Lasanble Nasyonal;  an konsiltasyon avek bann Zidisyer. Ok ? Mon pa konnen ki Lalwa Anti-Corruption i dir, me selman nou pou bezwen –  sa zot ki ti vote –  nou pou bezwen re nonm sa bann dimoun, fer zot vin vreman, not just be independent, but be seen to be independent.  For the moment it is not seen to be independent.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab pou ou kestyon.  Kestyon se akoz nou bezwen tou sa bann investigations, Auditor, Forensic, bann spesyalis, bann whatever.

        Tousala, swa nou serye lo Anti-Corruption Commission, swa nou pa serye.  E si nou pou swiv bann best practice dapre united Nation Convention which we are signatory avek, nou pou bezwen annan an plas bann diferan unit ki enkli investigation, IT, research, education.  Ok? Akoz nou komisyon encompasses tou sa.  Education, detection and investigation.  E si nou napa Staff pou fer sa…  But that’s fine by me.  Sa it’s up to you all si zot vreman anvi vwar en Anti- Corruption Commission travay.  Kestyon it’s really, up to you.  Selman nou bezwen sa bann dimoun e nou bezwen spesyalis.  Savedir kantmenm dimoun lokal, nou pou bezwen train zot dapre best practices.

        E mwan mon krwar ki sa Anti-Corruption Commission Seychelles nou fek komans li la, nou annan lavantaz dan fason ki nou kapab aprann ek bann mistakes ki lezot Commission in fer dan lemonn in the region wherever akoz nou ptipti and we are starting from scratch now in 2017. E mon krwar tou sa bann dimoun ki ou’n demande akoz nou bezwen,  I’m sorry ki FPA, your Committee napa sa bann dimoun.  Be for the Commission nou bezwen annan sa bann dimoun – si nou pou travay.

        Si nou pa pou travay, si nou pou fer sa en half baked job.  Be an tou leka i don’t want to be part of a half baked job.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.  Onorab Georges question arising.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair, mon question arising annefe pa’n ganny aborde par mademoiselle Athanasius e sa se mon ti pe espekte ki i pou reponn kestyon lo why Justice Gaswaga as Chair.  Ki i pa’n.

        Me les mwan kekfwa demann mon kestyon e i a kapab reponn.  Ki mannyer eski sa Commission pou fonksyonnen avek en Chair ki pa isi, ki pa rezidan.  Unless ki i pou vin rezidan.  Eski nou ti a kapab ganny en pe leksplikasyon lo la.

        Eski Ziz Gaswaga pou vin travay isi fulltime oubyen i pou reste koman en Ziz Uganda e vin isi from time to time ?  E si se sa dezyenm, eski nou pa vwar ki sa i annan en defayans dan 3 respe.  Premyerman i pou koute pou fer li vini, ale tanzantan ?  Dezyenmman, National Institutional Memories, zanmen nou pou gannyen akoz toultan nou bann dimoun pa pou bann dimoun isi kot sa lenformasyon pou reste.  Me i pou ale e trwazyenmman eski i pa pou kout nou Komisyon plis ki i ti’n devret si nou ti’n pran en dimoun apropriye ki reste isi Sesel ? Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mesi Onorab.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab Georges.  Premyerman lo apwentman Justice Gaswaga as the Chair, mon napa okenn lenformasyon akoz, why, whatever.  Mon’n vin zwenn.  Ok? E dapre Lalwa i dir ou bezwen en Judge.  So mon krwar i meet sa criteria dan sa fason.

        Ki mannyer Komisyon pou travay ek en Chair ki overseas.  Be nou annan 5 manm lo sa Komisyon, nou annan en Vice Chair, apre sa Komisyon i sipoze pe zwenn at least en fwa tou le 2 mwan e nou annan en CEO ki pou run sa.

        Mannyer mon vwar, bann direktiv – dapre Lalwa a vin sorti kot the Commission, savedir sa Board.  Vin kot CEO, CEO ava fer marse sa organizasyon.  E mon krwar, mon kapab  parey CEO kapab fer marse sa Lorganizasyon dapre fodre e mon raport ek sa Komisyon ki zot a konsider bann aksyon ki mon anmenn kot zot si mon vwar nesesite pou anmenn kot zot.

        Apre kou.  Nou ti diskit sa kou e mon pa tro rapel kote mon ti tande.  It was a slip of the tongue mon krwar ki en dimoun in dir si nou ti pou anploy en dimoun full time lokal i ti pou kout nou pli ser ki en dimoun ki part time.  Konmsi overseas.  E se sa ki mon’n zwenn e sa ki mon’n tande e sa ki mon konnen pour lemoman.  Mersi Mr Chair.

HON NICHOLAS PREA

Mesi Mr Athanasius.  Maybe mon kapab zis mon osi mon a pran en question arising.  Eski ou pe dir ki the Chair of the Commission –  Judge Gaswaga i pou ganny anploye on a part time basis?  I pa pe ganny en full saler, monthly salary?

        Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

I pou ganny peye son saler dapre kantite zour lo pro rata ki i isi Sesel.  That’s sa ki mon’n konpran dapre sa terms and remuneration of the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson ki ti sorti anler dan Cabinet.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Thank you.  Onorab Mondon.

HON TERENCE MONDON

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bon mon annan enn de pti kestyon an pasan.  Premyerman mon pa o fe avek sa Lalwa.  Mon pa ti dan Lasanble sa letan.  Me definisyon, eski zot in fini travay lo definisyon koripsyon akoz mon krwar i enportan.  Mon’n tann ou nonm UN Convention.  Mon pa konnen si ou pou swiv sa definisyon anba UN Convention akoz i annan en ta keksoz, fason fer, ki ozordi nou klasifye koman koripsyon.  Parey abuse of power ki nou konnen deza i annan ka Sesel pe arive kot en dimoun i lo en pozisyon kot i kapab servi son pozisyon pou abiz son pouvwar pou fer bann keksoz ki al kont lentere pep Seselwa.  Parey favoritism ki nou konnen i annan.  Mon oule konnen si i sa in fini kler pou mwan kapab fer sir mon o fe avek sa definisyon koripsyon li menm.

        Byensir, mon dakor ki nou pe koz, nou bezwen bann spesyalis, bann expert dan IT, dan telekominikasyon eksetera.  Selman mon pe mazinen osi, petet eski sa i napa en posibilite pou outsource ?  Kekfwa nou annan bann dimoun, kekfwa nou annan en resource-based ki nou kapab travay avek sa bann dimoun a moman ki nou bezwen zot pou fer sa travay spesifik.  Dizon parey bann expert dan IT, whatever –  koman en lot opsyon, si zot pe konsider sa ?

        Si dan bann provizyon i annan en time bar, par egzanp si i annan en ka ki’n pase.  Parey nou konnen i annan 50 milyon ki’n arive.  Eski si nou demann ou pou al fer en lenvestigasyon lo sa 50 milyon ki nou konnen, sa ou dir mwan i evidence-based  Savedir i annan levidans ki’n pase dan Labank Santral.  Eski dapre Lalwa i pou posib pou ou ale, al komans travay lo sa ouswa ou pou dir mwan i time bar ?

        Pou fini mon oule zis dir ki mwan mon en dimoun ki believe ki i annan en kantite Seselwa onnet e avek bokou kapasite.  Mon krwar in ler pou nou met akote parey mon koleg in dir ki i annan keksoz ki nou krwar zis etranze ki bezwen fer.  Ouswa nou vwar li pli fasil pou nou rod etranze akoz i pli fasil pou nou manipile ouswa kasyet keksoz.

        Mwan mon ti a kontan ki nou met bokou lanfaz lo Seselwa.  Ozordi nou annan, dan Finans i annan bann dimoun onnet ki pe travay avek plizyer milyon roupi e mon konnen i annan dimoun onnet dan sa pei.  Mwan mon enn.  Alors silvouple pran konsiderasyon.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Thank you Onorab Mondon.  Ok, premyerman lo kestyon definisyon koripsyon.  Napa en definisyon konplet lo ki si sa koripsyon, selman i annan si oule en universal understanding lo ki si sa koripsyon.  Sa i tonm anba bann lyen kot en dimoun i servi swa son pouvwar, son pozisyon pou ganny en byen pou li menm oubyen pou en lot dimoun.  Ok.  Sa i more or less ki puts it in a nutshell.  Selman ki nou pe dir, there’s corruption practices ouswa corruption acts i dan uncap osi ki ou’n nonmen laba, zot annan bann acts of corruption.  Zot napa en definisyon.  I bann acts of corruption osi nou annan dan Lalwa Anti-Corruption Act pou Sesel e sa i enkli bann keksoz ki accept  gratification for self or zis parey on ti pe dir promises pou donn en keksoz en dimoun pou en lot servis.  Pou fer son louvraz, abuse of position in Office;  Liability for corrupt acquisition.  Savedir ler ou’n ganny en propriyete, ou pa kapab eksplike ki bor ou’n gannyen. Bann keksoz koumsa.  Interference ek witness par egzanp, sa i en act of practice of corruption.  Parey ou pey en dimoun pou donn en false testimony oubyen en keksoz koumsa.  Gifts, ok ?  Mon donn ou en gift en serten valer e demen mon pou espekte ou fer en pti faver.  Sa osi.  Influencing outcomes in games par egzanp.  Nou’n vwar FIFA ti annan en gran skandal.  Ok – tou sa. Apre konfli of interest.  Si i undisclosed.  Tou sa nou bezwen pe get e sa i tonm anba Lalwa. Ok ?

        Koripsyon dan procurement.  Ok ?  Mon annan en zanmi, mon donn en Kontra ek sa dimoun pou fer vini boutey delo ok ?  I below standard.  Apre bann lezot acts of corruption parey dan bann Kontra, dan bann building of structures.  Kot dimoun i pran en shortcut akoz zot pe ganny peye, zot pe degaze.  Tou sa bann keksoz i tonm anba corrupt acts of practices ki nou, nou kouver dan nou Lalwa.

        Apre, si i annan en time bar pou bann envestigasyon lo bann ka ki pou vin devan nou.  Nou kot Komisyon nou dir nou laport i ouver, nou, nou napa en time bar.  Nou, nou pou al as far as the law allow us to go.  Ok?

        Apre zafer expatriates.  Mon toutafe dakor i annan Seselwa ki onnet, i annan Seselwa ki kredib, ki annan entegrite.  Selman, eski nou pare pou pare pou pey zot?  E si i annan, eski zot pare pou kit kot zot ete si zot dan sekter prive, ki pey zot plis.  Ok?

        Nou napa bokou dimoun, nou popilasyon i pti gin, kote nou pou ganny tou sa bann dimoun ler nou bezwen zot, si deza zot kontan kot zot ete, zot pe ganny recognize pou zot worth.  Ok?

        We’ve got a small human recourse capacity, nou bezwen be realistic about this.  E mon krwar sa i kouver ou bann 4 pwen Onorab ?  Thank you Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi. Onorab Mondon.

HON TERENCE MONDON

Yes, Mr Chair, ti annan zis sa bout si nou pou prefere permanan bann travayer permanan ouswa nou pou kapab servi bann eksper dan bann ka spesifik?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, yes Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Sorry Hon’ble.  True ou ti demann mwan sa e sa outsourcing mon krwar i en keksoz it’s the modern way si oule and mon krwar i annan bokou valer dan konsider bann ka kot nou, nou napa bann expertise pou outsource.  Selman nou, nou bezwen fer si ki nou fer nou due diligence ek bann dimoun ki nou outsource avek.  Selman s ai en nide and mon’n deza anmenn sa nide devan be it’s something ki nou bezwen fer sir ek lekel ki nou pe outsource e ki bann kalite servis nou pe gannyen ek konfidansyalite osi e sekirite lenformasyon.  Mersi bokou Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.  Onorab Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, mon pe regard sa Lalwa ki gid kreasyon Anti-Corruption Commission e mon ti oule zis an pasan fer en remark ki ou konnen nou bezwen careful avek sa tandans kot nou dir nou prefere etranze e parfwa petet i annan baz dan sa largiman.  Me parfwa osi nou bezwen get vre baz nou largiman ler nou pe avans li e nou pa zis fer li dan en zeneralizasyon me konsider li dan konteks ki nou pe fer sa largiman e si i relevan avek konteks ki nou pe fer sa largiman.

        En let keksoz an pasan ki’n fer mwan en pti pe … Mr Chair –  avan mon al lo mon kestyon, se ki mon byen kontan tann Onorab Ferrari mansyonnen ki nou annan en Sef Ziz Madanm ki pe fer en bon louvraz, en Attorney Zeneral ki pe fer en bon louvraz.  Mon kontan at least nou pe vwar poudir Onorab Ferrari pe konmans epanouir en pti pe, pe vwar keksoz dan en fason.

        Apre Mr Chair, mon ti a kontan zis eksplik en keksoz petet lo lapar Bidze.  Se ki ou konnen nou annan en tandans parfwa pou nou pran Bidze e konpar li avek Bidze par egzanp Lasanble Nasyonal.

        Polisi Gouvernman pou li delivre lo son progranm i vin avek son Bidze e Lasanble Nasyonal as an entity osi i bezwen vin ek son Bidze.  So, mon krwar loportinite pou nou debate e regard dan sa bann eleman ki Anti-Corruption Commission in demande an relasyon ek forensic accountant, legal advisor.  Nou bezwen osi debate ler nou zwen Bidze Lasanble e vwar si nou’n met sa ban konponan dan Bidze Lasanble.  Mon ti krwar nou annan en legal advisor on staff.  Mon ti anba lenpresyon ki nou annan enn, petet nou bezwen enn ankor pou FPAC oubyen bann lezot eleman.

        Me en kestyon ki mon ti a kontan demann Madame Athanasius.  Ler bann statutory bodies parey Anti -Corruption Commission e pete Minister Finans osi i kapab komant lo la.  Ler zot pe prepar zot progranm travay eski from now on, Lasanble Nasyonal pa kapab ganny sa progranm travay ki zot annan oubyen bann diferan aktivite ki zot annan plan pou fer.  Konmsi nou annan en progranm, sort of en action plan ki zot annan ki zot pe al fer.

        Rezon ki mon dir sa se ki pou bann legzersis bidzeter down the line, si i vin en supplementary budget i vin pli fasil pou nou annan sa lenformasyon olye ki nou bezwen parfwa pe stab en pti pe in the dark as to ki bann lezot.  Nou konpran byen, the gust of the organization, kote i pe ale.  Me pou nou kapab konnen ki bann aktivite, ki mannyer ou pe etal bann plan, ki bann progranm ki annan.  At least ki nou kapab ganny en konprenezon en pe pli detaye lo kwa ki pe ganny fer.  Eski sa i en posibilite ?

Apre dezyenmman, eski sa bidze ki ou’n gannyen la.  prenan an kont ki mon konnen zot pe fer bokou travay pou etidye bann best practice.  Eski sa Bidze pou permet zot kapab delivre lo standar sa bann best practices ki ganny etabli world wide e sirtou lanfaz ki pe ganny mete lo la an se moman par bann Lorganizasyon enternasyonal.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Pillay.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab Pillay.  An konsernan sa action plan, program of work ki ou pe demande.  Mon krwar i en keksoz ki pou napa en problenm pou donn zot enn fwa ki nou’n etablir nou action plan pou donn zot en kopi ;  pou fer, pou met lo nou website pou ki dimoun i konnen ki nou pe fer.  And at the end of the day sa PPBB, correct me silvouple PS Finance, si i toutafe outline sa action plan, si mon konpran byen.  Si zot in eksplik mwan byen.  So mon krwar sa pou ganny adrese in the near future.

        Konsernan budget.  Sa Bidze ki devan Lasanble ozordi, dapre kalkilasyon Komisyon e dapre sa ki Komisyon in met devan kot Minister Finans i pa ase pou nou fer nou devwar parey nou pe fer.  Sa Bidze dan lopinyon pou koup lanmen ek lipye sa pti zanfan ki pe grandi.  Se just a startup organisation.  Ek en startup organisation ou bezwen kapab konnen i annan bann depans ki nou pou annan.  Nou bezwen anticipate extra cost.  Nou bezwen, apre in the years that come i pou redwir.  I pou bezwen redwir akoz pa all the funds will come from Government.  Nou annan dan Lalwa, nou kapab accept Grants and Don.  And other contributions.  Sa osi mon pa konnen kot pou ale, si dan Kof Gouvernman oubyen dan nou, pou nou bank account.  Si nou pou annan.

        Tousala mon krwar nou bezwen gete.  Sa Bidze for a startup i bezwen montre sa sipor ki tou dimoun pe donnen pou fer sir ki sa Komisyon i kapab get start on their right foot.  Akoz depi premye zour si nou napa bann keksoz ki neseser, nou credibility as an institution in fini, well in fini ale before we even started to work akoz nou napa en lipye.  Nou annan zis enn ek en lanmen, nou pa kapab fer nanryen, nou annan zis enn.

        So this is the answer to your question.  Non Bidze ki lo latab i pa ase.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Onorab Sebastien Pillay.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, Ms Athanasius in lev sa pwen ki mon ti pou al raise dan mon follow-up question.  Enn bann provizyon zot Lalwa e ki mon vwar i egziste an relasyon ek lezot trust oubyen lezot Komisyon, lezot Lorganizasyon ki ou kapab dir zot semi- budget dependent, zot ganny serten sipor avek Gouvernman i sa konponan kot zot kapab raise funds.  Aksepte bann Grants.

E la kot mwan mon krwar ki sa provizyon Lalwa nou bezwen regard li dan ki fason, kote sa bann funds pou ale. ? Eski Minister Finans pou fer sa al anba Treasury Single Account kot i ava anba GSI system kot i ava pli fasil pou ki zot annan en monitoring system an plas pou asire ki ler bann Grants i antre kote i ale, eksetera?  Konmsi pou liber en pti pe sa Komisyon from sa persepsyon ki kapab ganny kree si en dimoun pe donn ou en Grant, apre i annan en case ki vin kot li.  Ou pou annan en konfli lentere.

Alors mon ti ava plito demande, sa provizyon Lalwa an relasyon avek aksepte bann Grants ek bann donasyon, i bezwen vin en provizyon ki relye probableman avek bann peer organisations.  Ler mon dir peer, bann Lorganizasyon similer aletranze ki ava anvi siport Anti-Corruption Commission Sesel.  Eski PS ou kapab klarifye sa enn, Ms Athanasius osi please.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  PS ou le pran avan.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair, mersi Onorab.  Zis pou azout.  Letan nou ti komans the Treasury Single Account 2008/2009,  nou ankouraz tou Lenstitisyon menm si i budget dependent pou swiv Trezor koman the main banking system.  Ouswa si zot resevwar en kont – en Grant, zot kapab met li koman en Grant in transit avek Labank Santral, avek Trezor.  Me i annan donor ki zot, zot met sa presyon pou zot ouver en Separate Commercial Bank Account avek Commercial Bank.

        Me selman ki nou fer si i arive i annan sa senaryo, ki nou fer sir ki i ouver for en specific program.  I pa ouver ki ou allow the entity pou fer son bann depans recurrent ladan, me selman i ouver pou sa specific program.  Par egzanp si in ouver for Training, i servi sa zis pou son training.  Me tou keksoz i bezwen pas via Trezor.  Me selman sa i en keksoz ki nou pe koz avek bann lezot donor osi pou fer sir ki menm si zot pe donn larzan bann Lenstitisyon Gouvernman ouswa bann budget dependent entities ki tou keksoz i pas via Trezor e i facilitate nou letan nou pe fer nou rapor anyel e osi nou bann quarterly report, either pou management ouswa bann external parties.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Onorab.

HON SEBASTIEN PILLAY

Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, letan ki mon en manm FPAC ki dan lepase osi mon’n rankontre sa eleman financial instructions e ki mannyer par fwa bann antite i depart from financial instructions e revision ki bezwen ganny fer dan financial instructions ki dan bann Departman i bezwen swiv e sa i sa seri lenstriksyon ki tou Departman i bezwen swiv.  Onorab Afif i konn sa tre byen.Plus anba Public Financial Management Act.  Eski mon ti a kontan fer en pledwari.  Nou pa kapab anba financial instructions ensiste ki okenn sa bann kont ki ganny ouver for any program or purpose i vin anba direct supervision Ministry of Finance, Department of Finance, ou Departman.  Ki apre sa entity pou li at each time ki i access sa fon i bezwen fer en written request ki ganny aprouve by the Minister pou ki i kapab ganny access ek sa fon.  Ki apre nou napa okenn bann issue dan lonterm ki kapab afekte bann lentegrite sa Komisyon par bann oversight ki pou kapab arive.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  PS.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab.  Zis pou azoute ki nou annan 3 bout regilasyon ki nou servi anba Public Finance.  Premyerman nou annan Public Finance.  Premyerman nou annan Public Finance Management Act ki ti ganny enacted an Novanm 2012.  Lo la son bann provizyon i vreman modern ou kapab dir e dezyenmman i annan Public Finance Management Regulation avan i ti apel Financial Instruction ki pa ti en (SI)  Zis i ti bann instruction ki Minis Finans ti donnen.  Me la nou’n fer sir ki i vin en regilasyon vreman detaye e sa ti sorti an 2014/2015.  E osi trwazyenm konponan ki nou pe finalize la se the revision of the accounting manual.  Sa i pli detaye ki en senp zofisye Gouvernman ki antre i kapab operate from A to Z ki i pou bezwen fer.  E konsernan bank account, ki nou fer anba Public Finance Management Act, i annan sa provizyon ki nou vwar ki en lenstitisyon i kapab ouver en bank account, me selman i bezwen kapab zistifye avek the Ministry of Finance the rationale akoz i pe ouver en Commercial Bank Account.

        Me selman tou Grant ki antre dan Gouvernman, nou fer sir ki i antre dan Treasury Single Account, tou Grant receipt, tou keksoz i bezwen pas via the Ministry of Finance.  Savedir si i annan okenn tranzaksyon ki pe ganny fer, i bezwen pas via Minister Finans.

        Me dezyenmman, si par egzanp sa lenstitisyon in ouver en Commercial Bank Account, anba nouvo Public Finance Regulations at least ki bann provizyon ki nou’n mete,  at least i bezwen annan 2 signatories.  Par egzanp si i annan en Board i bezwen annan 2 signatories lo sa Board.

        The secondly, on a quarterly basis i bezwen report to the Ministry of Finance, to Trezor.  Pou fer sir ki rekonsilyasyon i ganny fer e poudir ki mannyer in depans sa bann larzan.  Either sa reveni in antre ouswa depans.

        So sa i en pe bann provizyon ki nou’n fer.  Mon konnen nou pa oule tro, kekfwa si, nou, nou pa le tou keksoz i pas via Ministry of Finance zis pou nou annan anyway pou plis operational burden akoz demen sa lenstitisyon osi i kapab dir ou zot pe tarde avek peyman akoz bann tranzaksyon i bezwen from A to Z pase.  Me selman nou’n met en pe sa guideline in place dan nou financial regulation ki i pou pli detaye dan accounting manual kekfwa en officer pou kapab vreman kler ki i bezwen fer from A to Z.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS.  Onorab Henrie.

 

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Bonn apre midi tou dimoun.  Mr Chair, mon annan zis 2 pti kestyon.  Premyerman nou’n tann koz lo sa board la ki’n ganny apwente.  So, mon ti ava zis kontan konn bann detay zot renimerasyon, bann keksoz koumsa ki pou nou asire poudir zot pe ganny byen rekonpanse pou travay ki nou pe espekte zot fer byen.

        Dezyenmman, mon note ki CEO in ofisyelman pran son lofis le 1 Novanm, 2016.  So nou konsyan.  I nouvo sa antite la e dan bann mwan ki pe vini ki nou pou vwar effectiveness of zot travay.  Me selman mon anvi demann manmzel Athanasius ki mannyer i pe vwar sa louvraz ?  Eski vreman, konmsi si zot pa ti egziste – akoz nou’n tande koripsyon i en persepsyon, konmsi si zot pa ti egziste e eski vreman ti pou annan en diferans, keksoz ti pou otreman Sesel ?

        Konmsi ant Novanm ziska la  kwa ki’n pase e ki mannyer ou pe vwar sa 12 mwan ki devan nou an vi ki nou, mwan mon anvi aprouv sa Bidze akoz mon krwar zot enportan, so mon anvi i konvenk mwan ankor pou dir wi.  Pa zis mwan me lezot dimoun ki pe ekoute, poudir vreman zot neseser.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you.  Mersi Mr Chair.  Ok, renimerasyon sa Komisyon i pa ankor ganny met dan en (SI) nou ankor pe esper…  Selman in pas kot AG’s Office e lenformasyon lo la pou ganny pibliye lo la.  Selman bann terms of office of the Chair Person, Vice Chair, Members of the Commission i dapre swivan ki zot pou annan en manda pou 7an.  Remuneration  of the Chairperson shall be the numeration applicable to the Puisne Judge, Puisne Judge as provided for in the public service salary table and 3. point salary band 17, step 1. Where the Chairperson is not ordinarily present in Seychelles, the remunerations shall be remunerations applicable to a non residence Justice of Appeal.

        Remuneration of the vice Chairperson shall receive a remuneration of 24 thousand 621 per month.  This is the part time rate based on salary band 16, step 1 of the public service salary table.  This assume that the Commission meet for a maximum of 5 days at 35 hours every month and includes the preparation time and the Law require that the commission meets at least once every 2 months.  Remuneration of other members, they shall receive a remuneration of 16 thousand, 4 hundred and 14 per month.  This is also part time rate based on salary band 16, step 1 public salary table.  And is 2 thirds of the salary of the Vice Chair.  This also assumes that the Commissioner will meet for a maximum of 5 days. 35 hours every month and includes preparation time.

        Salary of the CEO on a full time basis, will begin salary band 15, step 1 which was 40 thousand, 345 per month.  However I believe it’s been moved up to Step 10, which is 43 thousand and something based on the fact that I’m not a first time CEO.

        And this is one salary band lower that the base salary of the Vice Chairperson and members. 

        In addition the CEO may not hold any other position, this is only the CEO;  may not hold another position of emolument while serving as the CEO of the Commission.  In other words, unlike other CEOs and PSs, the CEO of the Anti-Corruption Commission cannot have a part time job, cannot have a consultancy;  cannot have a bakery, cannot have a block of flats;  cannot have anything.  Just the 43 thousand per month and an allowance of 5,600 for transport which is supposedly the only allowance that PSs and CEOs get which is something that is to be clarified.

        And that is all with regards to that.  The second question Hon’ble Henrie, is that from November the 1st till now, we are still trying to set up the office.  We’ve interviewed staff, we do not have staff.  I cannot give you an answer because we have not started to receive complaints or investigate because we don’t have the manpower to be able to do that.

        So until such time that we have that, nou bezwen –  sorry mon’n koz an angle –  non, pou everybody –  Until now, nou anvi start.  Selman nou bezwen annan bann resours neseser an plas;  bann prosedir an plas pou nou kapab get bann ka ki pou vin devan akoz mon konnen i annan en ta ki pe esper dan laliny pou vin devan ek konplent, ek rapor, ek whatever.  Mersi Mr Chair.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.  Yes Onorab. Ok.  Onorab De Commarmond.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, detrwa pti keksoz.  Enn mwan mon apresye ki pou komanse la nou annan en Chairperson ki en etranze.  Zisteman nou popilasyon i ti pti nou, prezan si ou met en Seselwa la i kapab fasilman ganny bribed, enfliyans-e ensidswit.  Petet sa risk i ava byen si pou komanse i en etranze.  Mwan mon lopinyon sa.  Sa i mon lopinyon.

        Dezyenmman, eski CEO ou kapab eksplik nou,  bomaten nou’n ganny en let kot ou pe demann ki Anti- Corruption Commission i ganny plis Bidze ki zot bidze i pas vit e lot zour nou ti pe diskite ki zot oule en logmantasyon.

        Sey dir nou kote specifically ki zot bezwen plis larzan.  La, la, la, la ki zot pa ankor komanse.  Mon ti ava voudre ki pli tar kekfwa zot ti ava rod plis.  La pou komanse, pou nou al vit ou tenir ek sa bidze.  Pandan sa premye 3 a 4 mwan nou a get mannyer i ete.  Si ou pe komans serye menm la nou a gete ki mannyer pou asiste ou.

        So, guide nou lo la. Epi how much ki ou pou servi bann lenstitisyon ki deza la etabli.  Bomaten ek lot zour nou’n koze.  Aparaman NDEA, FIU zot annan en bann lenstitisyon ki zot in mete la, en bann Kontra akoz zot pe ganny en bann lenformasyon mon krwar ki kapab ed ou osi dan sa zafer Anti-Corruption, petet.

        Alor, sa bann resours ki nou annan for consultation, to what extend ki ou lofis pou servi sa ki egzistan la pou benefisye.  Or pa pou servi ditou dan en fason pou minimiz cost.  Mon pe dir si ou pou servi zot i a minimiz cost pou ou depanse pou lezot konsiltasyon investigation.  Ensidswit.

        E lot pwen ki mon ti ava kontan ou eklersi nou, se i annan sa alegasyon koripsyon $50 milyon parmi lezot.  E sa enn $50 milyon konmsi Lasanble, sirtou lo kote Lopozisyon i kontan nonm li tanzantan.  Si ou ti kapab dir nou ki fodre fer pou ou kapab komans travay lo la.  Ok ?  Dir nou la, ava konnen pou ou kapab komans travay lo la plus others.  Nou kapab anvoy devan.  Si fodre atraver  FPAC ouswa sa bann dimoun ki pe koz sa bann zafer zot menm, zot bezwen vin devan dir ki zot bezwen fer pou zot pa vin dir ankor la dan Lasanble.  Ava vin devan komanse enn fwa.

        Lot keksoz, dernyerman Mr Chair,  i enportan fer resorti en keksoz.  FPAC, FPAC i kapab travay etrwatman avek biro Anti-Corruption Commission.  E la bann resours ki nou pou bezwen, akoz nou, nou a papou kapab al fer sa kantite investigation ki Anti-Corruption Commission pou fer.  FPAC i pa mandate pou fer sa li.  I pa pou ale dan sa extent, dan sa detay.  Me FPAC i kapab ganny anba Bidze Lasanble, konsiltan, legal advisor.  Lezot advisor atraver Bidze Lasanble.  Mon swete dan sa sans letan nou ava koz lo Bidze Lasanble ou a kapab eklersi nou or whoever ki ava vini pou eklersi nou,  i a eklersi nou lo ki mannyer FPAC pou kapab epwiz Bidze Lasanble pou ganny sa bann lasistans ki i pou bezwen.  And I hope ki Lasanble pa’n servi sa Bidze pou lezot konsiltan e ki prezan FPAC pou napa nanryen pou li kapab epwize dan sa Bidze.

        Avek sa mon a demande osi si CEO ou pou pran bann case pou investigate ki vin lo Facebook.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab De Commarmond.  Sa bout pou Lasanble mon krwar ler in ariv ler Bidze Lasanble ou a kapab poze.  OkSenior Accountant avek mon mazinen Speaker ki pou la.  I ava kapab reponn sa bout lo Bidze Lasanble.

        Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Thank you Hon’ble De Commarmond pou ou kestyon.  Ok, premyerman akoz Komisyon pe rod en Bidze pli gran ki sa 8.3 ki’n ganny met devan par Finans.  Premyerman nou en startup organisation, nou annan bann kou ki vin, nou ti napa nanryen avan.  Nou pe start from ground zero e nou bezwen fer sir ki nou annan nou lofis, nou bann lekipman, nou bann sekirite,  nou bann dimoun e tousala i pou bezwen pran par dan en Bidze, initial budget ki i enportan ki i annan s asonm e mon ava eksplike akoz as we go along.

        Bidze ki nou’n demande, nou ti konmsi demann finans ti vin 6.7 milyon pou bann ‘goods and services,’ ‘other use of goods and services’ and ‘minor capital.’  Ti vin 6.3, sorry 6.3.  Dapre nou’n gete.

        Apre pou saler and I’ll explain akoz mon konnen pou annan raise eyebrows.  Pou saler nou ti demann 8.6 milyon pou saler.  Mon pou eksplik akoz.

        Akoz premyerman nou pe get en konpliman staff which we hope to have this year e nou pa konnen how soon.  The sooner nou konn nou bidze, the sooner nou konnen ki nou kapab fer.

        Nou sipoze annan en konpliman of 26 fulltime staff.  Si nou outsource, be ok i ava redwir.  But nou pa ankor konn bann pri outsourcing as yet.  E pour sa nou annan bann diferan post ki ek sa i apar ek Commissioners.  Ok, i vin the CEO, the Private Secretary, Driver.  Accountant, Admin officer, Advocacy Communications, Director.  Research Officer, Director Operation, Legal Assistant.  Senior Investigator, Investigator.  Case Manager and all the other position.  You want me to go through.  Ou le mon pas ladan?

        Call Operator for hotline , Director Education, Prevention.  Director pou Research and Development.  Advocacy Communication Officer, Research Assistant, Data Clerk.  Analyst, Auditors, Policy Manager Annalist, ICT Manager.  Financial Comptroller, Admin and HR manager.  Cleaner and International Relation (PR) and Receptionist.

        Tou sa ti pou fer en full complement of staff ki resours permitting nou pou kapab gannyen pou fer sir ki nou kapab fer en bon louvraz kot nou ete.

        Now, rezon ki saler i o, akoz nou dan Komisyon nou krwar ki nou bann dimoun i devret ganny byen rekonpanse dan zot saler.  I pa kapab bann sa scale ki DPA ki’n fini dir nou pou sa bann post ki nou ti advertise lot zour, konbyen nou pou peye.  Akoz ek sa kalite lapey ki zot in dir nou bezwen pey sa bann post.  Nou pa pe ganny dimoun ek bann kalifikasyon ki nou pe rode, ek sa motivasyon ki nou anvi e sa lwayote anver misyon nou Komisyon.  Ok ?

        I annan sa saying si raw peanuts ou ganny monkey, si ou donn patatran ou ganny torti.  I don’t know.  Me tousala nou oule evite.  Nou oule fer sir ki nou annan bann dimoun ki kalifye e ki ganny rekonpanse dapre zot kalifikasyon, zot worthThe merits of the job and the risks involve.  Ok, akoz sa i en keksoz ki enportan.

        Alor, dan kalkilasyon zot saler mon’n servi the public sector grid ki zot in donnen for the salaries e mon’n donn the end point of each salary band akoz mon pa konnen lekel ki deor.  Mon bezwen pran konsyan son eksperyans ek son kalifikasyon pou konnen ki bor lo sa grid mon pou met zot.

        Mon pa kapab met zot lo 1st step, akoz i pa fer en sans e nou pa pou ganny dimoun pou travay lo sa bann saler.  Apre mon’n osi enkli bann allowance.  Pou annan en basic salary ki pou mwan i ase rezonnab.  Selman mon’n osi mon’n donn allowance akoz zot bezwen ganny supplementation allowance pou fer zot saler en pe plis ki zot pa pe rod lot mwayen pou zot kapab meet zot daily needs oubyen line zot pockets.

        Ok.  Se pour sela nou’n vwar si ou le i tell you the salaries pou detrwa dimoun, mon kapab dir e sa i osi enkli CEO getting more what than the CEO pe ganny la.  Akoz dapre mon’n ganny eksplike, CEO i pa kapab ganny plis ki son Chair, ok?  Akoz i pran direksyon ek Commission.  CEO i pa kapab annan lot louvraz, ok?  I bezwen zis sa.  selman CEO pa kapab ganny gete parey lezot CEO dan lezot Lorganizasyon akoz risk sa job ki pa parey bann risk lezot job.

        Risk son lavi, risk son fanmir.  Ok ?  I annan bokou risk akoz CEO pou bezwen fer en louvraz ki pou annan lennmi partou kote.  Ok ?  E sa i en keksoz ki pa pe ganny pran an konsiderasyon.    Selman si ou vwar ek tou sa bann breakdown ki mon annan la pou bann Staff,  i pou fer sir ki nou Staff i ganny well looked after.

        Selman ou pa kapab donn son CEO nanryen, kot ou met son bann Staff.  Zot osi zot bezwen ganny en bon lapey pou sa louvraz.  It’s the particular nature pou sa mandate ki nou annan pou nou kapab be as professional, honest as accountable ki posib.  Ok ?  Pou annan sa lwayote anver sa manda ki lentere Seselwa.  Ok?  Lentere pei.

        So, sa se kwa akoz mon’n met 8.6 lo staff remunerations.  The rest, the operational cost i vin 6 ok? And pou mwan osi sa i en under budget akoz i nouvo teren, nou ankor pe fer.  Dan bann lannen ki pase of course nou pou bezwen rann kont.  We are accountable, ki mannyer nou servi sa larzan.  Eski nou’n servi tou sa larzan.  Si nou pa’n servi it goes back.  Si nou bezwen ankor nou a retourn dan 6 months or lannen prosenn, sorry but the budget needs more.  Se pour sela ki i annan bann demann par Komisyon pou ogmant sa Bidze.

        I pou pran letan Onorab De Commarmond, Mr Chair.  Si i go through each item.  Selman, eski ki mannyer oule mon detay, donn sa detay lo sa increase lo operations?

        (Mic off)

 

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Lot kestyon, ok.  Sa $50 million dolar, what needs to be done pou kapab deal ek sa.  Ler nou ouver nou laporte nou pou pran bann complaints e sa ki anvi met devan sa ka zot kapab swa si nou pa gannyen, akoz plen dimoun in koze.  Si Komisyon i krwar i neseser pou look ladan.  Selman si i annan dimoun ki annan en pe levidans, zot bezwen vini, zot dir.  Nou annan sa levidans.  Donn sa, swa hard evidence swa nenport other evidence ki zot annan.  Osi dir nou kote kekfwa si annan bann evidence ki pa dan zot lanmen parey zot konnen ti annan en camera par la, en keksoz par la.  Ki nou, nou kapab then take it, investigate, fer nou bann resers, intelligence, whatever pou rode ki pe arive. Ok ? E si i annan valer dan sa konplent ki’n vin kot nou komisyon. Ok ?

        Pou annan prosedir, selman dimoun nou pe ankouraz nenport dimoun, i kapab dimoun  prive, endividi dan piblik.  I kapab dimoun ki deza dan lanplwa.  Selman zot pou vini e zot pou bezwen ranpli nou form ki pou demann tou sa bann detay.  I annan bann dimoun ki kekfwa zot oule anonim.  Sa osi nou pou entertain.  Ok.  Selman si zot pa donn zot non, zot pa donn zot detay, nou pa pou kapab fer en follow-up ek zot pou kapab dir zot oubyen rod plis lenformasyon si an ka nou bezwen.  Sa se the disadvantage pou vin anonim.  Selman nou pou gete.

        Apre, savedir ler nou ouver laport –  Wi, anybody i welcome pou vini pou met sa ka devan si zot anvi ek nenport levidans ki zot annan pou kapab donn nou the step forward pou get dan sa ka.

        E sa i bring me also to the point ki Facebook.  Ou’n demann en kestyon lo Facebook.  Eski nou pou get dan bann ka ki oubyen bann alegasyon oubyen bann keksoz ki ariv lo Facebook.  Wi, mon pe dir wi akoz non, nou pou get partou kote.  E si i annan en keksoz ki’n ganny dir ki nou krwar i merit ganny investigate plis, nou pou fer li.  Akoz sa se manda.  Nou pa bezwen esper dimoun vin konplent sa biro.  Nou osi nou bezwen fer nou louvraz.  Met nou lizye, nou zorey partou ;  ekoute, gete apre osi fer.

        Nou pa kapab zis esper piblik.  Akoz kekfwa piblik pa ankor ganny konfidans pou vin devan ek keksoz.  Me nou ek nou manda dapre Lalwa, nou annan drwa al investigate si nou krwar i annan en aksyon koronpi ki ganny fer oubyen ki’n ganny fer.

        Mon krwar sa Mr Chair, i reponn kestyon Onorab De Commarmond.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Yes.  Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, mon note sa ki CEO in dir.  Savedir ki ou, nou pa pou bezwen Lasanble, okenn Manm vin devan ou.  Lefe ki nou’n koze lo la dan Lasanble, ou’n tande.  Savedir ou letan ou set up otomatikman ou pe pran sa issue 50 milyon pou ou gete baze lo sa ki ou’n dir.

        Savedir lo Facebook osi bann dimoun i kapab dir keksoz e ou, ou pran pou ou investigate –  sa ki ou’n dir la.  nou pe note, nou pe take note.

Mr Chair, an menm tan CEO ti ganny 1.6 milyon an 2016 pou set up son Lorganizasyon.  Nou ti a kontan konnen akoz zot pe demann plis la, si ou pa’n komans set up avek sa ki ou ti gannyen par Finans. E  an menm tan dan mid-year review,  petet nou kapab aprouv son Bidze la mannyer i ete.  Pli tar dan mid-year review ler ou ava’n spesifik lo, ou’n komans ou loperasyon prezan ou pe bezwen sa an plis,  ou ava demande.  Kantmenm en Bidze siplemanter i a kapab ganny get ladan.  E sa mon ti ava kontan si lo kote PS Finans ti kapab dir en keksoz lo la.

        An fini Mr Chair.  Sa kestyon bann entity ki nou annan parey FIU, lot intelligence ki annan dan NDEA,  ki in deza siny en kontra ek Gouvernman, sa bann entity ;  bomaten nou tande in siny kontra ek Gouvernman, whatever. Sa bann investigation ki ganny fer, mon ti a kontan Finans i dir nou,  si par egzanp demen Anti-Corruption Commission i bezwen servis en lezot Lazans ki’n deza siny en Kontra ek Gouvernman,  eski i pou bezwen al pey ankor Gouvernman,  nou oule eklersi en pti kou la ouswa si i kapab share sa ki i annan ouswa si lezot entity Gouvernman i kapab servi sa ki nou’n deza peye pou pa met detrwa fwa lo la.  E vwala, mon ti ava konmsi nou ti ava ganny leklersisman lo la.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, mersi Onorab.  Ms Athanasius petet zis ler dan pe regard ler.  Sey être bref.  Be brief in your answers please.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank You Mr Chair.  Mon pou bref lo sa enn sa repons.  Wi nou pou get bann ka ki pe ganny souleve.  Ki pe vin atansyon tou dimoun lo bann keksoz ki koripsyon, sa i korip.  Sa i mankman larzan isi, sa 50 milyon.  Whatever.  Selman i ava ede nou si annan dimoun ki vin devan ek en pe evidence oubyen en pe leads pou ed nou lo la.  Ok ?

        Akoz pa espekte ki nek ler nou over an Fevriye nou pe pran sa ka deswit e nou pe al fer zafer.  Ok?  Selman nou, nou pe dir we will look into everything ki nou santi i corrupt e nou pou fer le neseser.  Selman nou  ti a kontan dimoun i vin devan si zot annan laprev, okenn levidans, okenn keksoz ki ava donn nou en speed up the process.  Ok ?

E an repons avek sa Bidze, si Lasanble i aprouv sa Bidze 8.3 petet mon ti a demann PS Finance pou dir ki mannyer i pou allocate akoz mwan, mon pa pou vreman kapab travay ek sa Bidze mannyer i ete.  Akoz deza 8.3 i zis en pti git anba sa Bidze pou mon bann saler.  Savedir mon pa konnen ki mon kapab fer.  Kekfwa PS Finance i a kapab ed nou dan sa sityasyon.  Akoz mwan mon pe dir zot fransman ou pe koup mon lipye, ou pe koup mon lanmen  e mon pa konnen ki kantite mon kapab pey mon bann staff.  Silvouple, I’m at a lossSo kekfwa PS Finance i a kapab ede ek Lasanble a kapab donn konsey.  Thank you Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  PS Finance.  Mr Payet.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Thank you Mr Chair.  Thank you Onorab.  Zis pou azoute premye kekfwa mon a komans lo dernyen kestyon.  En pe synergy.  Mon krwar nou’n swiv deba pandan sa dernyen 4 semenn.  Nou vwar en pe bann lenstitisyon Gouvernman nou bezwen servi en pe bann synergy ki kapab egziste.  Par egzanp la nou annan Anti- Corruption Commission, bann keksoz ki par egzanp FIU i kapab investigate ouswa NDEA.  Ouswa menm internal Audit Division within the Ministry of Finance.  Akoz within internal Audit division Ministry of Finance nou annan en seksyon unit ki fer fraud investigation.  E nou annan bann internal auditor vreman kalifye e bann rapor ki sorti nou kapab share avek Anti- Corruption Commission osi pou zot further zot bann lenvestigasyon.  Ek lapolis osi.  Par egzanp ek CID e menm par egzanp ek Seychelles Revenue Commission osi zot bezwen annan sa synergy travay e mon krwar pa si bann lenstitisyon Gouvernman i bezwen demann zot pou sarz zot pou sa bann travay ki zot fer akoz nou annan en sel bi within internally.

        E secondly, regarding Bidze Anti-Corruption Commission, en keksoz kekfwa nou bezwen realize.  Mon konnen kekfwa Madame Athanasius in koz en pe lo DPA.  DPA kekfwa in donn ou en starting point, me selman kekfwa Anti-Corruption Commission i bezwen travay lo en salary structure.  Like a scheme of service ki i kapab donn son bann anplwayer.

        And secondly enn de keksoz ki nou’n vwar.  Par egzanp vi ki the proposal was en Bidze 15 milyon.  Eski i neseser pou annan en financial comptroller ouswa en Admin and Human Recourse manager?  Nou pa pe antre dan day to day activity.  Me selman zot kapab revwar en pe sa 26 pozisyon.  Mon konnen dan konteks Sesel ou pa pou kapab en sel kou requisite 26 Staff en sel kou akoz mon krwar the labour market i montre ou ki kantite i kapab annan.  Ou kapab komans en group ki ou vwar i en pe irzan pou ou kapab komans avek e during quarterly nou kapab monitor kekfwa ki requirement ki’n ganny fer.  Kwa ki outstanding e nou kapab travay avek Lasanble pou advice Lasanble osi an menm tan  kekfwa ganny feedback from Anti-Corruption Commission.  Refer back to Lasanble on a quarterly basis pou advice Lasanble.  Be la bide ki nou’n donnen, kwa ki’n requite.  Kwa ki outstanding e en propozisyon i kapab ganny fer during mid- year.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS Payet.  Ms Athanasius, bref man.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.  Zis pou azoute, wi Anti-Corruption Commission pou bezwen travay ek lezot partner.  Lapolis, nou pou bezwen travay ek FIU, NDEA, Attorney General’s Office.  Nou pou bezwen travay ek tou sa bann dimoun akoz an de ler nou bann investigation, nou bann keksoz.  Kekfwa zot osi zot annan lenformasyon ki kapab ed nou ek nou bann investigation ek nou ka.  savedir nou pou bezwen travay ek zot, selman we still.  Nou bezwen nou konpleman dimoun.  Ok?

        Annandler kekfwa o komansman nou pou bezwen ganny dimoun seconded and trained lo fason Anti- Corruption Investigations and …… me  sa mon krwar i en keksoz ki nou pou bezwen fer.  But yes, we will, it is part of our operations ki nou pou bezwen lyez.  We are not working isolation, sirtou ler nou pe get keksoz corruption ki kekfwa i kapab enkli money laundering. En lot keksoz.  Drugs and all this.  Tousala.  Property, bann assets.  Confiscation.  Nou pou bezwen servi bann resours ki osi available ek bann partner ek sa bann lezot agencies.

        An konsernan budget, please Mr Chair,  just give me this, zis pou fer Lasanble konnen kwa par egzanp se bann saler ki DPA i dir mon bezwen pey mon bann dimoun akoz kekfwa zot, zot vwar i ase rezonnab.  Me mwan pou sa Komisyon i pa ase rezonnab.  Mon’n ganny en email ki ti dir mwan mon Private Secretary par egzanp pou en CEO Anti- Corruption Commission –  pa nenport Commission, i bezwen ganny en saler ki R7,796.  En inducement allowance of R550 and a marketable skills of R600 pe fer en total 8946.  Eskize, pou en Private Secretary of an Anti-Corruption CEO, pa akseptab.

        Driver, R5445.  Sa osi, en nenport dimoun i kapab aret driver e dir be ou annan let.  Tir as let, donn mwan sa let.  Dimoun pa pe get bann importance.  Ki mannyer dimoun i kapab ganny atrakte to the wrong side.

        Admin Officer, ok R11 mil. Ok?  Advocacy and Communication Officer, R9700.  Seriously, ki nou pe sey fer?  Ki kalite nivo nou bezwen sa Anti- Corruption?

        Apre Researcher.  Researcher, ok.  R9855.  Silvouple Lasanble, mon pe demande si zot krwar sa i ok al ek sa Bidze ki Minister Finans in propoze.  Kekfwa mon a kapab travay ek sa.  Me non mon pa pou kapab travay ek sa.  Kekfwa Komisyon kapab travay ek sa.  Se tou Mr Chair.  Thank you.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Zis pou en leklersisman lo kandida ki travay –  bann recruitment.  Bann recruitment ki’n ganny fer pou vin travay avek Commission i ganny fer par CAA.  CAA i prezant devan all the Chair.  Bann pos lo Board.  CAA i rekomann sa avek Prezidan.  Be i rekomann bann ki’n apply.  Si par egzanp napa Seselwa ki’n apply lo sa bann pozisyon.  Sa ki’n apply i ganny met devan.  Mon ti pe zis sey dir sa, petet.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, Onorab Georges.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, sa legzersis ki nou pe fer i ekstrememan enteresan.  Akoz o komansman ozordi mon ti’n ekrir la vot pour.  Me anmezir ki mon pe ekout sa ki pe arive mon lide pe sanze.

        Mon krwar lide en Anti- Corruption Commission i en bon lide.  Annefe i nou lide e ankor en fwa in ganny pran e zot, zot in tay avek.  E pour sa rezon mon krwar i ti ava itil dan sa pei pou annan en tel Komisyon.  Akoz non selman  en komisyon i bon akoz i investigate e nou’n pas en pe letan lo la ozordi.  Me i bon ako zi en lisyen mesan e tan ki i la, si i travay byen i donn en warning bann dimoun ki pe mazin al fer koripsyon pou pa fer li.

        Alor i annan en double whammy  parey nou dir.  I touy 2 zwazo avek e sel koud fles.  Me, me i paret mwan ki sa Lalwa ki zot, zot in pase i defayans.  E mannyer ki lapwentman i defayans.

        E se la mon problenm.  Mon krwar ki zot pa’n, eskiz mwan pou dir zot sa.  Nou pa ti la.  Zot pan ase reflesir ler zot in dir ki fodre en Ziz ki vin ansarz sa Komisyon.  Akoz an fezan sa, nou pa kapab nek toultan met zis Ziz avek avoka vin vey lasyet lagres.  Nou bezwen annan de fwa regard lezot dimoun e i annan en kantite dimoun valab dan sa pei.  Tel parey bann dimoun ki retire.  Mon pe mazin bann headteachers i annan en kantite zot.  Zot in retire, zot fer en karyer egzanpler e zot, zot in montre lekol en bann dimoun e zot ti a bann dimoun parfe pou vin ansarz en tel Komisyon.  Mon pe mazin bann dokter ki’n retire.  Mon pe mazin bann accountant, official receiver.  Bann dimoun ki annan gran lespri forensic.

        E donk mon krwar la in annan en defayans.  In  annan en defayans dan Lalwa, in annan en defayans dan fason ki sa bann dimoun lo sa Commission in ganny swazir.

        E pour sa rezon Mr Speaker, mon krwar ler nou regard bann saler.  Mon dakor avek CEO dan en serten sans.  Mon napa okenn problenm avek ou saler CEO e mon konpran ki sa dimoun ki ansarz sa Lorganizasyon fodre pa i pe meddle avek bann lezot keksoz e fodre i ganny saler apropriye.  Mwan, mon napa okenn problenm avek ou saler R43,325.  You’ve got to be beyond the reach e sa i byen.

        Me mon pa vwar ki apard kekfwa enn de lezot ou bann Staff –  Iinvestigator, bann keksoz koumsa.  Mon pa vwar ki menm prensip i devret apply pou tou dimoun.  Mon pa vwar ki ou Personal Secretary i devret ganny meyer saler ki Personal Secretary Mr Payet ki pe asiz o-bor ou par egzanp.  Akoz li i ansarz larzan.  Li i ansarz larzan Sesel antye li e nou pa’n tann en keksoz mal lo li ziska prezan.  Alor i montre ki zot norm is loyaltyThe norm is loyalty.  Se pa leksepsyon ki lwayote.  Ou pa bezwen al pey en dimoun pou ou ganny son lwayote.  En pe parey nou pe tande atraver FIU, NDEA eksetera.  Nou bezwen pey zot en pli o saler pou nou buy zot lwayoteI don’t buy that argument at all.

        E pour sa rezon.  Pour sa rezon mwan mon krwar personnelman ki bann saler, bann Commissioners i pa apropriye, i tro o.  Nou pe al pey sa Sef, sa Chair menm saler ki en Puisne Judge.  En Puisne Judge se tou bann Ziz ki pa Sef Ziz.  Nou pe al pey en dimoun part time or full time.  Menm si i full time isi, saler en Puisne Judge pou li fer en travay detanzantan.  Ler sa Puni Juge li i pe ekout kes bomaten, midi, aswar i pe ekrir zisteman tou lannwit, eksetera.  I annan en dekadans la.  Definitivman mon bezwen siport bann dimoun ki pe travay versus bann ki pe ganny en saler pou pa fer ne travay plentan.  And the same thing applies to bann Komisyoner.

        25 er tan par mwan zot ganny demande, is that what you said.  35 erdtan par mwan pou en saler R24 mil pou sa vice e R16 mil pou lezot.  Ki travay ki zot pou fer pandan 35 er tan par mwan ler zot Chairman pa isi, ler ou, parey ou’n eksplike ou menm ou pe fer tou sa travay and that’s your job.  Ou ki pou ansarz sa biro, ou ki pou fer tou sa travay.  Bann Commissioners mon pa vwar zot pe asize pandan 35er tan par mwan with all due respect e mon pa vwar ki sa saler i apropriye ler nou regard bann lezot dimoun ki pe fer en travay a plen tan. E mon vwar donk en defayans.

        Mon ti ava kontan, mon ti ava kontan ganny convince ki mon bezwen vot an faver.  Annefe mon bezwen dir ki mon’n koze avek ou Chairman pandan ki i ti isi e in eksplik mwan s aki pe arive lo sa Komisyon e mon dir li ki nou krwar i en bon lide and all being well i en Bidze ki merit ganny siporte.  Me apre midi la, mon krwar nou’n aprann ki i annan larzan an plis ki nou pe mete, ki ti ava kapab ganny itilize dan en meyer fason.

        Konpran mwan byen.  Olye pey bann dimoun pou asize, sa larzan mon ti ava kontan vwar li dan investigation.  Mon ti ava kontan vwar lo teren.  Mon ti ava kontan vwar li al dan pos bann dimoun ki pe actually fer en travay rather that bann dimoun ki apre ki ou, ou pou’n fer tou travay.  Pou asize pou validate ou travay.  Akoz se sa annefe ki mon krwar sa Commission pou fer.

        Alor mon ti ava kontan ki ou convince mwan e mon mazinen mon pe koz pou bann dimoun lo sa kote latab e kekfwa enn de mon bann Koleg lo lot kote latab ki mon krwar ki sa bann keksoz ki mon annan en problenm avek i annefe pa en problenm.  Mersi Mr Chair.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Georges.  Avan mon donn Ms Athanasius.  Onorab Ferrari ou ti oule azout keksoz lo la ?

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

En keksoz.  Azout en keksoz lo risks.  Madame Athanasius, avek bokou respe apre ki mon’n ekout FIU avek NDEA pe koz lo risk I don’t want to hear this word again.  Ok, akoz s ai fer nou per.  Si i annan en dimoun ki devret per se Hon Ramkalawan ek mwan.  Akoz nou, nou’n stand up to the whole system pandan de lannen.  De lannen e de lannen.  And we are still there.  There are no risks.  If you are doing a good job, there should be no fear and no risks. 

        Mwan , mon pa vwar akoz sa Lorganizasyon i devret pli riske ki okenn lot keksoz.  We have people of integrity.  Let’s build them up and let’s build this country to be enteng.

        Mwan, mon ti a kontan dir, Mr Chairman.  Mon desizyon in fini pran.  7an, pou mwan vot 7an.  Sa Board in ganny apwente.  Sa Board  in ganny apwente pou protez en dimoun pandan 7an e sa se ansyen Prezidan James Michel.  Pandan 7an nou pa pou kapab fer nanryen akoz he appointed that Board.  Ok?  And he has been cited and we want to hear him.  I annan dimoun i anvi tann enn de keksoz, i annan enn de kestyon pou ansyen Prezidan Michel.  7an i pou ganny proteze.  Non, mwan mon pe dir mon desizyon in fini pran e mon pe urge mon bann koleg.  Mon pe urge mon bann koleg pou lans en mesaz avek Prezidan Faure pou re nonm sa Board for a shorter period.  Si fodre fer en sanzman dan Lalwa.  Antretan not one cent, one cent.  Mwan mon pa pe vot pou nanryen.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Sa komanter Onorab Ferrari, i pa akseptab sa.  Sa i ou annan en problenm ou met li korekteman.  Ou pa kapab zis dir koumsa on air.  I pa byen sa.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Onorab Ferrari in dir i annan kestyon pou Mr Michel.  Ok?  Ms Athanasius in dir son laport i ouver pou okenn dimoun ki levidans, ki annan lenformasyon pou anmennen pou fer investigation.  Ok?  E Ms Athanasius in dir Anti- Corruption Commission is going to work like this.  Ok?  So any body ki annan okenn levidans, okenn proof.  I ava ed li pou li fer son travay.  Mon pou demann Ms Athanasius pou fer komanter lo sa ki Onorab Georges in lev-e.

        Go ahead Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you.  Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab Georges pou sa oportinite pou convince ou akoz bann Commissioners i sipoze ganny sa saler ki zot pe gannyen.

        Sa i en kestyon ki mwan mon pa’n, mon pa ti la dan sa diskisyon ler zot in vin ek sa bann figures.  Mon pa konnen si PS Finance i dan sa direksyon ki kapab kekfwa pli byen klarifye lo kwa zot in baz sa bann saler akoz mwan mon’n vini, mon’n zwenn.  Mon’n ganny dir i pou koumsa akoz ti’n fini ganny prove koumsa.  Selman nou ankor pe esper bann (SI) sorti pou vwar dan Gazette vreman konbyen pe gannyen sakenn.  Selman dapre ki mon ti ganny dir, sa ki mon ti lir ek zot.  Sa ki in ganny deside mon napa sa background malerezman pou kapab convince ou.

        I wish I had, cause I need my budget.  Kekfwa PS Finance i kapab ed sa Komisyon pou convince ou en pe.  Please Minister.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Ms Athanasius.  Mon krwar depi o komansman ou pe plead for your budget.  Ou’n fer le pwen.  PS Finance.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair, mersi Onorab.  Zis pou azoute diskisyon of the salary of the Komisyoner Minis Finans pa ganny involve, e  nou ganny zis propozisyon letan Bidze in vini.  E diskisyon  mon krwar ki nou kapab rediskite e mon krwar pa si (SI) in sorti mon krwar nou a revwar avek Office of the President pou revwar en pe, totalite before  the (SI) i sorti.    Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS. Mon krwar en pti pe dan laliny Onorab Georges pou en CEO fulltime, sa sif i ganny aksepte par Lasanble me petet pou bann Commissioners ki pe fer part time parey PS in dir me petet sa i a kapab ganny revwar.  Onorab Ramkalawan question arising oubyen ou annan ou non lo papye pou kestyon.  Question arising oubyen ou a pran li apre ? Ok ?       Onorab Basil Hoareau.

HON BASIL HOAREAU

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair mon  pou fer en komanter apre mon annan en kestyon.  Annefe mon konpran pwen ki Onorab Georges in raise.  In demande si fodre toultan en avoka ouswa en dimoun ki’n zis pou pran bann pozisyon ase responsab ki sa Lalwa i provide for.    Mon pe get Maurice letan i pe dir sa.  Maurice osi zot apwent en Ziz ki zot ki zot apel sa Director General ouswa en Mazistra ki’n servi pou 10an.  E menm zot al pli lwen ouswa en avoka, ki’n practice pou 10an.  So  letan ou get sa Anti-Corruption Commission Act  ou vwar poudir parey lot fwa mon ti pe dir sa dyob ki sa Chairman, pou fer i enn ki pou vreman  pou annan en ta legal issues ki  mannyer i pou conduct en investigation.  So mon krwar i enportan i annan en rezon akoz, sa bann Lalwa.  I pa zis nou ki’n deside envant larou.  Nou letan nou’n fer sa Lalwa, e  parey Madanm Athanasius in dir – nou’n fer sa Lalwa akoz, akoz nou annan en lobligasyon anba Konvansyon United Nation Convention.  E sa Lalwa in ganny fer e nou  pe donn sa Lalwa en serten lenportans.  Se sa ki osi nou pe rod bann dimoun ki kalifye.  E mon pou dakor ek Onorab Georges, ki mwan osi mon ti a kontan vwar en Chairperson ki en Seselwa.  Mwan osi mon ti a kontan vwar sa me si en dimoun pa’n apply. Mr Georges pa egzanp i pou kalifye – i pou kalifye pou  li ganny  apwente me solman i pa pou kalifye akoz i dan politik.  Me an term son kalifikasyon akademik, i pou kapab fer sa.  I annan lezot petet i annan lezot koleg avoka mon mazin Mr Padiwalla, Mr Keiran Shah i bann dimoun ki kalifye me kestyon se eski zot anvi ganny apwente dan sa pos ?  Sa i en lot issue i pa zis en zafer, pa apwent en Seselwa, me eski i bann dimoun ki kalifye, i anvi sa pos ?  Sa i enn.

        E as far ki mwan mon konpran sa bann pos ti ganny advertised e i annan serten dimoun ki’n apply.

        E pour mwan, letan mon  nonm Onorab Ferrari ki dir apwent Seselwa, me solman letan Seselwa in ganny apwente, in vwar komanter  pou li fer  – in fer komanter ek mon koleg, e mon koleg ….pou dir akoz mwan Ms Chetty pa devret ganny apwente.  Me letan nou asize nou get sa nou kapab get diferan Lorganizasyon e koman pik dimoun e nou pou vwar poudir, ou  a dir be sa enn i   senpatiz en Lopozisyon, pa apwent li.  Les sa Komisyon komans fer son louvraz.  Annou gete ki mannyer, i fer son louvraz.  Mon ava dakor ek ou petet pou nou reget sa Komisyon – petet sa i en keksoz ki nou a konsidere dan Lalwa pli tar si fodre amande redwir length of a term of tenure.  Sa mon ava dakor avek ou.

        Me annou pa dir  poudir sa Komisyon pa pou kapab fer son louvraz  – sa bann Manm ki la annou gete ki mannyer i ale, annou pa touy sa zanfan avan ki i komans marse.  Les li komans marse, apre nou ava vwar.  Mon a fer ou rapel en keksoz Onorab Ferrari.  Mon a fer ou rapel en keksoz.  Eski ou realize, poudir pandan ki letan Onorab Ramkalawan, ti Leader of Opposition dan lepase letan i konsern PSAB zis politisyen ki’n apwente koman en manm PSAB.  Zis politisyen ki’n ganny apwente kan Parti  Lepep pa’n zanmen apwent en politisyen lo PSAB.  So ki mon pe fer ou  konpran, mon pa pe koz lo PSAB la mwan – ki mon pe fer ou konpran, se ki lapwentman, – lapwentman pa pe dir poudir,  le moman ki ou konsilte, avek Lopozisyon ki ou pou ganny meyer apwentman.  Sa pa korek.  Lalwa i fer provizyon ki CAA ki pou rekomann avek Prezidan bann manm e CAA i ganny etabli anba Konstitisyon.  Vwar e letan mon ekout ou pe koze, Onorab Ferrari,  dimoun pou oule krwar poudir, koripsyon i  annan en balizaz, i dan zis Egzekitif.  Koripsyon napa balizaz.  I kapab antre dan Lopozisyon si i  pa egziste deza dan Lopozisyon.    So ki mannyer  eski demen ki nou pou dir ?  Nou pou dir  anr sa enn i dan Lopozisyon ti dakor avek alor la i annan en konplent kot en manm Lopozisyon  dir sa Chairman sorti ouswa sa manm ?  Annou pa mazin koumsa.  Annou get sa commission in ganny etabli dapre Lalwa annou les li komans travay annou gete ki mannyer i ale.

        Lot pwen ki mon oule fer sorti, Mr Chair, mon siport CEO totalman.  Totalman lo lefe ki i pe demann son Bidze.  Mon  pa pou dakor ave PS letan in dir an relasyon avek bann investigation commission i devret pe servi bann lezot brans Gouvernman ouswa Lazans Gouvernman.  Mon pa pou dakor avek sa.  Akoz mon pa pou dakor avek sa, akoz Lalwa i dir ou sa commission i bezwen endepandan.  E mwan mon ti a kontan vwar en Commission ki kapab swazir son prop dimoun ki i pou apwente.  I pa bezwen santi li oblize akoz what if  i pou al investigate en zofisye dan serten Minister ?  E i pou al servi menm travayer dan sa Minister  ki pou al investigate en o-zofisye dan  en Minister ?

        Mwan mon anvi sa commission i endepandan konpletman akoz mwan mon anvi sa commission in kapab marse e fer son louvraz 100 poursan byen.  Mwan mon anvi sa commission i nobou pa zis en commission la me  i annan ledan pou li morde.  I en enportan  – enportan sa.  E se sa ki mon ti a kontan ki i ganny son Bidze.  I nobou endepandan konpletman.  I swazir lekel ki – akoz letan mon get Lalwa i dir ou menm poudir i kapab etabli bann specialized units ki pou al fer serten investigation.  So Lalwa li menm li … e letan mon pe get Lalwa i pa pou in accordance avek Lalwa pou fer ki sa Commission i bezwen al depann lo lezot Lazans Gouvernman pou li fer son louvraz.  Solman mwan mon pou demande ki nou vot pou sa Bidze – Onorab Ferrari mon ti ava demann ou pou vot pour sa Bidze – pa les ou laenn pou Prezidan Michel, blok sa Bidze sa commission Onorab Ferrari.  Pa les sa arive.  Annou travay pour Sesel.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Hoareau.  Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Mersi Mr Chair.   Mon ti oule zis akoz mon pa ti’n fer en pti komanter lo sa ki Onorab Ferrari ti dir taler me mon krwar i enportan pou dir ki  nou pa devret pe downplay, the risk associated ek sa louvraz bann  Commissioners ler nou koman antre lo premises – ler nou komans anmenn warant – ler CEO i kapab under special circumstances  zis rode gard al arrest en dimoun ki sispe dapre Lalwa.  There is  a lot of risk involve sirtou, si nou pe al deryer bann big fish, ok – bann dimoun o- plase – bann dimoun ki annan en ta larzan ki annan en ta pou perdi si i annan okenn substance to bann investigation e si vre zot koronpi zot annan en ta pou perdi and i annan dimoun ki would do anything pou kapab sov zot lapo.  And this is something,- it’s nice to believe tou dimoun i onnet i pa pou fer bann keksoz mal – i pa pou sey touy en dimoun  – i pa pou fer sey…This is Utopian.  It’s very nice mon byen kontan.  I wish the world was like that solman nou pe viv ek imen e nou konnen when we have a lot of things at stake, and annandler desperation i kapab drive ou pou fer bann akt ki i ou pa ti pou komet in other senses  and this is kot risk i antre.  The bribe – they kill  – they threaten ok ?  Tousala  i kapab vini dan sa pos ek nenport bann Staff sirtou bann investigated – sirtou CEO Commissioner osi mon krwar zot pou ganny zot fair deal. Solman these are the things ki vin ek teritwar okBut we’ve got to ensure ki nou pare pou sa e ki nou ganny compensated pour sa risk ki nou pe antreprann dan sa pozisyon Anti-Commission.

        Mersi Chairman.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Mr Athanasius.       Lo mon kote mon pa ankor mazin lo sa bann zafer risk – malgre mon pe ganny en pe bonbarde – menm mon pe ganny phone calls.  Me mon napa lentansyon pou kouver mwan anba sa.  Mon abitye viv free.  2 swar mon’n mont kot mwan byen tar mwan tousel mon pa’n mazin sa.  Akoz mon krwar petet par ler nou surround nou avek bokou sa bann persepsyon.

Me petet i apply pou mwan Ms Athanasius me dan ou kote i kapab diferaman.  Mon annan ankor 3 Manm nou a fini tap sa Head  – sa body ki devan nou la.

        Onorab Afif.  Annou sey bref nou a kapab fini e Ms Athanasius osi donn repons to the point apre nou a kapab pran en Break e pran ankor one concessional body avan nou Break.

        Onorab Afif.

HON AHMED AFIF

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, mon ti zis senpleman oule dir avek CEO ki mwan mon krwar  fortman poudir i enportan pou annan en Anti-Corruption Commission. Prensip lide mon krwar personn lo sa kote latab nou napa okenn problenm avek.  Ki mon ti a kontan dir li osi nou, nou pou siport tou bann lanket ki ganny fer dan bann ka Koripsyon absoliman 50milyon Dolar.  I annan plizyer ankor.  Mon ti a menm dir swivan bomaten i annan loder pou al rod lezot ankor ki Lotorite zot menm parski zot pa kapab eksplik bokou keksoz.

        Mon dernyen pwen se i pa zis larzan ki nou bezwen.  I pa zis larzan.  Sa ki pli enportan, se kalite dan sa dimoun.  Kalite dan sa dimoun.  Mon kapab dir ou avek imilite  – avek leksperyans kot mwan mon’n été dan Finans kan mon ti komans  koman en PS mon saler ti R15mil.  Ozordi i bokou plis.  Mon ti komans la mwan.  E mon sekreter ti ganny bokou mwens me selman kalite presyon, ki ou pe rankontre-  kalite lanvironnman ki ou ladan,  ou pe deal ek en sonm R20milyon par zour – ou pe resevwar e ou pe peye tou – par zour.  E ou bezwen fer sir  ki drwat  – bezwen  rekonsilye ek Trezor – en kantite responsabilite.   Me an plis ti annan tousala.  Me set en responsabilite ki ou aksepte li avek imilite parski ou konnen ou pe fer  en responsabilite.    Ou annan en responsabilite pou ou fer alors sa pou mwan, i zengredyen pli enportan ki ou pe rode ou.  E ou pe rod sa ki ou pe rode osi ou pe rod dimoun ki annan sa volonte pou fer sa louvraz e pli enportan ankor, en dimoun ki pa per.  Se tou ki ou pe rode.  En dimoun ki pa per  – i pa fer ler in ganny en lenformasyon i dir li sepa tel dimoun pe fer en keksoz – i koronpi e ou konnen sa dimoun ni byen ek Prezidan dizon mon pe donn ou en legzanp.  Sa dimoun li fodre i pa per.  I pa per pou li dir be ok mon pe al deal ek sa sityasyon e malgre ki kekfwa i a dir  i pou anvoy en dimoun sepa vin kot ou pou fer ou per – ou pa per ou.  Ou pe fer ou louvraz e ou pe fer li drwat.  Se tou ki manke e pour sa la, i pa larzan ki pou aste sa.  Sa se sa dimoun – konfyans ki i pou annan dan ou koman CEO – dan sa Bord e petet sanmenm rezonn zot pe ensiste lo en Bord ki zot krwar en Bord ki en pwen konpletman enparsyal dan lafason i fer keksoz se sa ki pou donn sa bann Staff konfyans.  E en kantite fwa mwan si mon ti a ou  – mon pa konn sa louvraz parey ou mon ti a  depan lo ban lenstitisyon otour mwan en pe  parey sa ki PS Payet pe dir, Internal Audit par egzanp dan Minister Finans. Se li ki al fouraye dan tou sa bann Minister pou gete si zot pe swiv lord.  I pa fer en rapor parey external audit parski li i  internal i internal to PS  e li i fer bann louvraz ki vreman tous dimoun e i tous depi CEO depi lot.  Me zot pa per zot pa pe ganny bann gro saler –  me zot travay.  Zot travay dir.  Mon a dir ou bann manrmay onnet ki travay dir.    Parey PS Payet.  E alor en kantite fwa ou a gannyen sa bann e mon konnen  – mwan mon annan gran konfyans dan Seselwa.  Annefe, kot mon ti été ti tou Seselwa e mwan mon ti a sizere fortman avek ou pou rod ou Seselwa me solman pou ou motiv li.  Dir li ou ki ou pou siport li.  Personn pa pou tous li.  Personn pa pou anvoy dimoun met zarm dan son biro – personn pa pou fer li per.  Sa bann keksoz koumsa la ler ou dir zot la, zot santi zot kapab travay akoz ou pe kouver li.  Ou pe kouver li e set ou ki ou bezwen.  Ou pa bezwen neseserman rod bokou larzan, me mon ti a sizere al avek ou R8milyon  pran li komans travay avek gete ki mannyer keksoz i été.  Nou, nou la pou siporte.  Tou bann lezot Lazans mon asire kapab donn ou sa sipor e annou gete ki mannyer i été.  Si vreman zot pe santi ou pa pe kapab delivre la tou dimoun pou riske annan en lot lopinyon.  Me si ou montre  poudir ou kapab fer marse, avek sa mwan mon krwar i kapab  vin byen ou kapab fer en bon louvraz  e petet ou pe realize, poudir i pa zis larzan ki pou fer en  fer en diferans.

        Mersi Mr Deputy Speaker.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Afif.  So i plizoumwen en sizesyon.  Ms Athanasius oule zis dir en keksoz la oubyen ou ava gard pou pli tar.

        Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Mersi Mr Chair.   Non mon  konnen larzan pa everything solman ler ou mazin kalifikasyon bann dimoun osi it’s a lot today.  So  si Bidze pou ganny aprouve as is be we’ll deal with what it’s going to be.  Thank you. 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok?  Onorab Simon Gill.

HON SIMON GILL

Mersi  bokou Chairman.    Mr Chairman mon krwar nou’n ariv lo en crossroad ki  mon krwar ki nou devret move pou nou vot lo sa Bidze pour Anti-Corruption Commission e mon konnen ki nou pou ganny sipor mazorite lo lot kote latab pou nou kapab bouze avek  nou tranzaksyon.  Mon pa pou fer okenn lentervansyon kontrovers lo sa size malgre mon ti’n prepar mwan dan en fason serye  pou mwan koz lo la.  Me annou donn sa madanm en sans pou li al komans travay e a tout fwa si i annan okenn lezot problenm ki arise Lasanble i la – Minister Finans i la, nou ava kapab anvoy nou lanmen pou donn ou sa sipor. Mon krwar mon pou aret la, e mon a sizere pour nou bann koleg laba let’s move on.

        Mersi bokou.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mersi bokou Mr Chairman.    Bonn apre midi Mademoiselle Athanasius.  Mr Chairman ekskize mon’n ariv en pe retar akoz mon ti annan en commitment Anse Royale, me mon anvi premyer dir ki  zis Gaswaga akonpannyen avek CEO ti vin vwar mwan letan zis avan eleksyon e nou ti koz lo sa Komisyon.  Mon krwar ki enn bann konsern ki mon ti met devan zot se sa lafreyer ki  nou ganny nou en lot lenstitisyon  e i vin en lot toothless bulldog.  E malerezman, pandan sa bann dernyen lannen nou’n  trouv en kantite sa bann lenstitisyon ki ganny etabli me zot vin en bann lisyen ki napa ledan.  E letan ou koz ek bann dimoun dan sa bann lenstitisyon, zot dir ou egzakteman sa.  Human Rights Commission – touthless ;Ombudsmen – touthless ;Media Commission – touthless ; Ethics Commission – touthless.  Tousala zot ganny etabli me solman zot vreman napa sa biting power.  E letan mon pe desann dan loto, mon pe ekout sa pasyon ki Ms Athanasius pe koze e i sa menm pasyon ki letan  nou ti zwenn nou ti koz lo la e mon santi ki i annan sa desir.  Me keksoz ki mon ti osi eksprim avek sa 2 dimoun, sete  konpozisyon sa Bord.  E ozordi mon krwar se sa pli gran febles e nou bezwen fer fas avek sa – pli gran febles se konpozisyon sa Bord.  E mwan mon reste lo sa pwen ki sa Bord son konpozisyon pa bon.  E pli boner Onorab De Commarmond  pour li sey defann sa in sey dir ki ti annan laplikasyon – sa bann dimoun ti fer laplikasyon e apre sa CAA ti apwent zot.  Me CAA li osi tou i touthless li.  CAA pli pir ankor.  E mwan mon pa ezit-e pou dir CAA i pli pir ankor e i bezwen li osi tou pas dan en prosesis netwayaz – i bezwen pas dan en prosesis kot i ganny regarde.

        CAA ti annan lapwentman me mon konn plizyer dimoun ki’n fer lapwentman devan CAA laplikasyon zot in  fer plizyer laplikasyon  – bann dimoun kalifye – bann dimoun solid pou zot vin Ziz par egzanp – madanm Nicole Geraldi Tirant – en dimoun solid in deza fer laplikasyon me zanmen in deza al pli lwen ki sa.  In pran CAA sepa konbyen  lannen pou li kapab propoz en dimoun pou vin Sef Ziz.  Nou’n annan en Sef Ziz par enterim pandan en lot letan.  Alor sa method of appointment i pa vreman dir nou nanryen.

        Me la mon anvi dir Mr Chairman, size Anti-Corruption Commission,  mon‘n ganny sans regard son Lalwa, e definitivman i annan en kantite keksoz ki bezwen ganny netwaye ladan.  Mon pa konpran ki zot ti fer dan sa Senkyenm Lasanble.  Tou keksoz nek ti vin devan zot, zot ti pase zot ti aprouve.  E definitivman ti annan en kantite travay pou fer pou netway li e sa i enn bann size ki nou dan LDS nou’n take up avek Mr Faure e i enn bann size ki lo latab pou nou netwaye pou nou regarde ki mannyer nou kapab fer li vin pli byen.  Ansanm avek Human Rights Commission Freedom of Information Act  – SBC Act – Elections Act ek bann lezot ankor.

        So sa Lalwa i bezwen ganny regarde – re vizite.  Letan in koz lo lapey definitivman mon vwar en discrepancy par egzanp lo sa ki bann Manm lo Electoral Commission i gannyen avek sa ki manm sa Anti-Corruption Commission pou gannyen.  Salary scale ki Manmzel Athanasius in mansyonnen mon anvi dir avek li ki i menm salary scale ki bann dimoun ki travay dan Lofis Leader Lopozisyon  ek Lofis ki Leader of Gouvernman Business i gannyen e mwan osi tou mon balans latet ennler.  Mon balans latet, me solman  anyway ou pran li koman en fight ki ou pou bezwen anmennen.

        Mr Chairman, mon konpran dilemma ki Ms Athanasius i ladan i anvi en Bidze pou li set up son Commission.  E an menm tan osi i anvi bann dimoun ki solid.  Ziska prezan it’s been basically a women show.  E mwan mon  krwar ki definitivman nou bezwen donn sipor sa Komisyon.   Me selman mon krwar ki sa lo sa pwen kot nou été, e  sa i nou meyer loportinite nou bezwen fer li avek serten kondisyon, e kondisyon prensipal ki mwan mon krwar ki nou bezwen absoliman mete, se   pou regard konpozisyon sa Bord  – pou regard Lalwa e pou nou kapab re balans li konpletman.  Mwan mon ti pou kontan si nou ti ava ganny en langazman parey letan nou ti pe regard size Declaration of Assets pou nou bann politisyen  – ti’n osi mete ladan ki poudir the Commissioner i ava ganny apwente lo rekomandasyon CAA.  Me enn bann keksoz ki nou’n fer, e ki nou’n amande ladan se pour nou tir CAA ladan.  Pou nou fer en lamannman pour ki sa bann dimoun  – sa dimoun ki  a ganny apwente koman Commissionner i ava vin devan Lasanble kot nou ava kapab nou koman en Lasanble kestyonn zot.   E mwan mon krwar ki poudir sa Anti-Corruption Commission sa bann manm i bezwen pas atraver  sa menm prosedir.  I bezwen pas atraver sa  menm prosedir pour ki   ankor en fwa ou ava kapab ganny nou  en commission ki vreman annan ledan – en commission ki pou ed ou dan ou travay.  Alors mon pou fer en propozisyon, mon pou fer en propozisyon, malgre ki sa bann dimoun lo sa Bord in ganny apwente e mwan mon pe ezit-e pou dir avek zot ki nou pa satisfer avek sa bann dimoun lo sa Bord, in fact mwan i annan serten  nominasyon ki pandan en pe letan konmsi  poz mon lekor en kantite kestyon akoz ki toultan bann dimoun sorti dan menm, Chambers ki ganny mete lo Bord isi ki ganny mete lo Bord laba.  I resanble ki i annan zis serten avoka ki zot, zot ganny rekonnet e bann lezot pa ganny… E la i pou enteresan Mr Chairman, si ozordi ou regard bann avoka, ki reprezant bann commissions ensidswit ou pou vwar ki poudir i annan serten ki annan li 3 retainer –  sa bann keksoz koumsa.  Non, non retainer lo bann commissions.  Non, nou mon pa pe dir, sa mwan.  Onorab Georges  pa lo  okenn retainer – pa lo okenn commission.  Alors eski nou ti ava kapab dir, e eski nou ti ava kapab propoze, ki dan sa Bidze mon pe al propoz en keksoz ki serye ki tough sa ki dan sa Bidze nou koup tou sa ki annan pou fer avek bann lapey  bann Commissioners.  Nou koup tou sa ki annan pou fer avek lapey bann Commissioners nou demande ki Lalwa Anti-Corruption Commission, i ganny anmennen dan sa Lasanble avan ki nouvo Lalwa i ganny anmennen dan sa    avan le 31 Mars sa lannen.  Mersi Onorab Vidot ou’n byen ed mwan.   Mon pou touzour rekonesan pou ou pour sa.  Nou fer li avan le 31 Mars sa lannen en an menm tan nou demande dan  sa Lalwa ki lapwentman bann Komisyoner i ganny fer par Prezidan lo rekomandasyon kot sa menm prosedir lo rekomandasyon  Lasanble Nasyonal konmsi sa rekomandasyon avek Lasanble Nasyonal e ki son peryod letan ki zot ganny apwente, i vin pli kour i vin 5an par egzanp.  Ok i vin 5an e ki baze lo la, si nou dakor avek sa nou fer sa bann koupir parey mon pe dir, spesyalman kot bann lapey komisyoner i konsernen ki sa i ava donn CEO sa posibilite pou li ganny son Bidze, pou li anploy bann dimoun ki neseser  e ki an menm tan letan sa 3 mwan i pase apre ki sa Lalwa.  E enn bann latas prensipal i ava pou regard sa Lalwa, ki letan sa Lalwa i pase e ki son Komisyon i ganny etabli then, i ava kapab revin ankor devan sa Lasanble e atraver sa si  nou vwar ki poudir, letan li i ava koz avek nou parey in koz avek nou ozordi, ki poudir travay pe komanse la  i la ki pe komans fer ensidswit ki i ava donn nou koman en Rapor lo ki mannyer i a pe debourye, dan 3 mwan epi nou, nou ava regarde lo sa nivo lapey e lo nivo lo si i bezwen plis sipor pou li pa vin en toothless bulldog, me pou li vin en keksoz.    Wi, wi I mean kan pou annan kot pou vot pou en supplimentary  si i bezwen napa problenm sa Mr Chairman.  Sa napa problenm.  Napa problenm pou donn en Komisyon sitan enportan en commitment parey.  E mon krwar ki sa ki mon pe met devan nou ava regarde avek PS Finans ki i  panse lo la.  Sa i ava donn nou en fason pou nou avan devan, e ki an menm tan nou ava pe fer en lot pa, pou nou rantre konmsi spesyalman dan sa peryod letan la, kot i annan en nouvo – kot dimoun ki State House lo sa baz tranzisyon, i nouvo e alor pandan sa peryod tranzisyon i ava  kapab ed nou pou nou etabli en keksoz ki konkret – en keksoz ki solid.  Se sa Mr Chairman ki mon ti ava kontan met devan e letan mon pe terminen se pou reasire ki poudir ki poudir nou ava donn sa full commitment lo travay sa commission.

        Mersi bokou.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab Ramkalawan.

Ms Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Thank you Mr Chair.   Mersi Mr Chair, mon‘n ekout Mr Onorab Ramkalawan pou son sipor pou travay pou commission e mon oule zis konnen si Bidze ki pou ganny aprouve ozordi, eski sa pou donn mwan the leeway pou pey mon bann dimoun sa ki mwan mon krwar zot merit ganny peye oubyen eski mon pou bezwen fer dapre sa ki DPA in dir mwan   akoz si sa se leka, me i anmar mon lanmen e i pa pou ed keksoz pou proceed.  Solman si zot pou vot  pour sa Bidze, I would like to know that I have the support pou fer sa ki neseser pou fer sa komisyon marse dapre nou bezwen fer li marse ek lendepandans ek lotonomi, ek accountability a lafen dizour.

Mersi Mr Speaker.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes, Onorab.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Non, non mon ti a zis kontan dir Mr Speaker, definitely avek sa ki PS ti dir pli boner as long as you have a Scheme you can  detailed your Scheme and that Scheme is approved by the Ministry of Finance, it is ok.  As long that it is not up there ou konpran ?  So  all department, agencies they have the Scheme.  So you can make the Scheme on the proposal that you have ok and I’m sure the Ministry of Finance will approve based on the arguments that you have brought forward.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok Onorab.  PS oule konsiltasyon oubyen ou pare pou pran desizyon ?

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mersi Onorab.  Definitivman sa ki nou ti’n propoze pli boner, just to go back on the Scheme nou ti’n dir ki i annan sa lanvlop ki  bann basic salary me solman i kapab propoz en Scheme of Service  – proper avek bann  additional allowances par egzanp inducement marketable skills  – par egzanp si en dimoun in vin ek en  Master  – si i annan PHD, i ganny so much.  Si par egzanp i annan bann specialist skills parey Forensic Auditor, sa osi i annan bann special allowance ki i donnen.  Ok ?  Me propozisyon  konsernan Commissioners Allowance, zis pou azoute savedir keksoz mon bezwen en pe laspe legal kekfwa at this point mon krwar pa si Madanm Athanasius pou kapab diskit okenn case avek son Komisyoner si i pa an egzistans – savedir nou, nou kapab freeze sa bann allowances pou sa bann Commissioners ziska ler i annan nouvo proposal ki vin devan.  Wi (S1) pa ankor pase li.  So okenn peyman pa pou kapab ganny fer ziska ler (S1) i pase.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok PS mersi.  Savedir nou pa bezwen ni en breakdown ni nanryen pou al konsilte ok ?

Yes CEO  madanm Athanasius.

CEO LUCY ATHANASIUS

Mersi Mr Chair.   Mon pe zis gete si i annan en freeze lo allowance lo bann allowance pou bann Commissioners, savedir zot pa pou travay pou sa 3 mwan si mon konpran byen? Zot pa pou travay pro bono.  Mon krwar pa.  Mon pe zis fer klarifye  sa pwen please.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes?

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Si zot serye, zot ava fer li pro bono.  I annan plizyer nou, nou’n travay pro bono apre ki nou’n sorti dan Lasanble ki nou’n boycott Lasanble nou pa’n vin dan Lasanble e apre par malis Mr Michel in koup tou bann pansyon.   Nou ti travay pro bono nou e apre sa travay pro bono, in fact in anmenn plis rezilta akoz nou’n retourn dan Lasanble 15 lo 10.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Yes, Order! Order!  Onorab De Commarmond.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mersi Mr Chair.  Zot dir granmersi Mr Pillay.  Si pa Mr Pillay la zot fini.  Mr Chair non zis en pti keksoz.  Mon ekout propozisyon Onorab Leader Lopozisyon. Mon krwar i annan serten konsiltasyon ki’n ganny fer avan apre avek Prezidan Larepiblik  e dan sa laliny – dan sa spirit mon krwar ki nou kapab vot lo sa Head ki devan nou, avek bi ki sa bann issues in ganny reget ladan dan en short dele posib dan lespri ki zot  in diskite avek Prezidan.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon lo sa not mon krwar nou  a pran en vot lo Bidze Anti-Corruption Commission ki trouve lo paz 118 ziska 119 pou en sonm R8.338 milyon .  Mon demann tou Manm ki an faver lev zot lanmen ?  En moman.  Onorab Henrie.

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Nou pe pran sa vot an prenan konsiderasyon sa ki ‘n met devan –  pe freeze….. ?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Wi.

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Savedir son sonm i pa sanze kwa ?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Non.  Son sonm i reste koumsa an prenon an konsiderasyon tou bann pwen ki’n ganny met devan e ankor PS i gard sa langazman pou retourn dan Lasanble.  So  tou Manm ki an faver ?  Okenn Manm ki kont ?  Ok Madam Clerk ?

 

MADAM CLERK

Mersi Mr Chair.  Pou sa enn Bidze 22 Manm in vot an faver e personn pa’n vot kont.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi savedir, Bidze pou Anti- Corruption Commission  pou en sonm R8.338 milyon in ganny aprouve par Lasanble Nasyonal.  Ms Athanasius mersi e zis avan nou ekskize petet nou ava profit lo la nou pou pran Ethics Commission ki very short e bann zofisye in fini arive e son Bidze osi i ptipti, now eski nou pran en pti Break 5 minit oubyen nou a retournen nou pran Ehics Commission ?          Kondisyon nou ti dir bomaten nou pou release lantenn 5er.  Ok?  Son nou pa pou al over plis ki 5.30 ok ?  Nou ava pran en Break 15 minit e parey mon‘n dir Ms Athanasius  mersi  pou spend sa demi zournen avek nou.  Fotespere ki tou keksoz i ava mars byen dan setting up your office.  Good luck.

        Bon avek sa nou ava adjourn ziska 4.45.

        (BREAK)

EHICS COMMISSION 

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon nou ava kontinyen nou travay e mon a les PS entrodwi nou 2 zofisye ki dan Lasanble ki a pe reprezant Ethics Commission.  PS Payet ?

 

PS PATRICK PAYET

Mersi Mr Chair.  The next Bidze to diskisyon  i lo paz 107 a 108 Public Officers Ethics Commission e nou envit Mrs Mina Crea CEO Public Officers Ethics Commission e i pe ganny asiste avek Ms Beverly Carolla.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS.  Eski nou kapab ganny CEO pou fer en pti brief overview lo Ehics Commission apre nou ava open floor for questions and clarifications.  Mersi.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Depite Chair. Bonn apre midi.  Bonn apre midi Leader of the Opposition.  Bonn apre midi tou Manm Onorab.  E mon pou bref avek mon pti prezantasyon akoz nou ptipti e  pa bezwen gran leksplikasyon.  Ehics Commission li i ti ganny formen dan lannen 2008 ler ti annan en Lalwa ki ti ganny pase koman i apel Public Officers Ethics Act, 2008 e an Out travay ti demare e  lobzektif sa Komisyon se pou administre sa  Lalwa e promouvwar etik dan sekter piblik atraver en Kod Kondwit avek bi pou avans sa bann gran laliny ou prensip koman nou kapab dir koman lentegrite, latransparans  kontabilite e  i pou ede konbat bann move pratik koman konportman travayer dan landrwa travay e pa zis dan landrwa travay  an deor travay i dir se ki en travayer ou  konportman dan travay e an deor travay i devret parey  – bon konportman e si fodre fer lanket, kont en zofisye servis pibik i ganny raporte ek nou ki’n ronp sa Kod of Kondwit, Kod Kondwit – Ethics nou pou fer lanket. E se pour sa rezon  nou angaz nou bokou dan bann sesyon training pou anpes sa bann keksoz arive – training lo standar ou nivo kondwit  bann travayer dan bann Lorganizasyon sekter piblik pou akonpli lobzektif sa Komisyon.  Nou osi donn lopinyon bann Lorganizasyon ki demann nou lopinyon lo sa Kod Kondwit avek Ethic nou donn leklersisman lo la.

Nou osi responsab pou anmas bann dokiman deklarasyon of assets pour bann zofisye sekter piblik. Anliny avek sa Lalwa 2008, i annan serten dimoun ki ganny dezinyen pou fer deklarasyon pa tou anplwaye ki ganny demande pou fer deklarasyon.  Nou annan zis en progranm parey zot pou vwar dan Bidze akoz i dan en sel  – napa proze – napa ‘capital project’ ek lezot keksoz e nou napa drayver nou napa en veikil.  I annan  ‘shared services’ avek Central Bank Building ki nou lwe, me solman i annan delo ki nou lwe parey toilet facilities ki ganny ansanm avek sa ki nou pey rent. E apre i annan en kontribisyon pou elektrisite. Nou napa en accountant – nou napa HR e sa dimoun ki la li menm li private secretary li menm li accountant li menm li HR so nou fer fason pou nou sov pou nou pa depans bokou larzan.

Anploy en dimoun apre ou met sa dimoun zis pou kill time pou asize.  So li i pe  ganny en pti allowance pou sa bann travay ki i pe fer an plis.  Nou Bidze i R2.3  e ladan i annan saler, e allowances pou Bord Members e  R1.6milyon  apre ‘use of goods and services’ i R787 pou nou depans lofis.  Nou Bord i konpoze ek 5 dimoun.  I annan 3 dimoun lo Bord ki ganny dictate par zot Lalwa.  I annan Ombudsmen – i annan Oditer Zeneral apre i annan Chairman CAA.  Sa zot pa neseserman ganny apwente  – zot Lalwa ki dictate zot devret seat lo sa Bord.  Prezan i annan 2 lezot dimoun ki ganny apwente par Prezidan dapre rekomandasyon sorti kot Sef Ziz, Leader of Opposition avek Leader of Gouvernment Business and Speaker of the Assembly, apre Prezidan i endorse recommendation.  E sa 2 dimoun se CEO   li menm li ki Chairman dapre sa Lalwa e i annan Excecutive Secretary.  I  pa zis en sekreter – sekreter me i en Executive Secretary li ki plito i fer bann …en teknisyen ki  i anmas bann deklarasyon of assets.   E declaration of assets i annan zis 2 dimoun ki annan drwa anmase  se zis mwan avek sa executive secretary.  Pour zot lenformasyon nou annan zis 4 dimoun  sa CEO, executive secretary – i annan en program development officer apre i annan  en secretary ki en jack of all trade.  So mon pou les la gete si Lasanble si i annan plis leksplikasyon zot kapab demande lo la.  Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Bon nou open pou kestyon   – pour klarifikasyon lo Bidze Public Officers Ethics Commission.  Onorab Ferrari.

 

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

Bonn apre midi Madanm  zis pou demann mon prezimen zot ofe avek nouvo sanzman dan Lalwa, ki pe enkli lezot dimoun ki pe ganny propoze   – ki’n ganny propose deza pou deklar zot assets bann lezot dimoun ankor ki mon krwar Lasanble avek Prezidan pe konsidere. Donk  sa i enn.  E dezyenm keksoz, eski  zot  pe pran onboard sa propozisyon ki prezan  bann assets pou available to the public, me solman baze lo serten kriter kot manm piblik i a kapab fer demann.  Mon ti a zis kontan pou benefis piblik ki si ou kapab konfirm sa.  Mersi

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  CEO.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy Chair.  Mersi Onorab Ferrari.  Ou premye kestyon ou leklersisman ki ou pe rode sa bann premye ek sa  pa en nouvo Lalwa sa amannman   to sa Lalwa la,  wi i annan  sa bann dimoun ki pou sorti lo la.  E nou, nou pa ankor ganny advise lekel  e akoz mon konnen ti annan bann lamannman ki zot in demande.

E once nou konnen  lekel bann dimoun ki pa pou vin deklare kot nou  – pou deklar ek sa nouvo younit, then nou pou deal zis avek bann lezot ki reste.  E bann ki reste  ou pe demande si ou bezwen klarifikasyon si sa bann  lenformasyon ler i ganny anmase dan lanvlop la, si i pou ganny make available to the public ?  Pour le moman nou pa pou kapab fer li akoz Lalwa pa permet nou fer li.  Nou pe operate anba en Lalwa.

Sa bann lezot zofisye ler zot vin fer deklarasyon  nou pou anmas li  and seal – the security seal parey nou abitye fer. E si i annan en lanket ki pe fer kont Mr X or Y then Attorney General oubyen Ombudsmen oubyen en Anti-Corruption Body zot pou demande solman zot ki bezwen fer atraver  Attorney General demann nou pou ouver lanvlop.  Nou pou ouver sa lanvlop dan prezans Mr X oubyen Mrs Y e si sa dimoun I refiz-e vini nou pou donn li en delay e si i refiz-e vini  pou ouver devan bann dimoun ki’n vin la prezan li i  nou pa kapab esper li.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Onorab Ferrari.

HON JEAN-FRANCOIS FERRARI

En pti pwen ki mon krwar piblik  ti ava enterese avek se konbyen lannen eski zot gard sa bann deklarasyon e si sa i komans kan?  I komans zour ou fer deklarasyon oubyen i komans zour ou kit ou pos?  Osi sa mon krwar sa i ava enportan  pour en dimoun konnen.

        Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes CEO.

 

CEO MINA CREA

I dir ki sa bann deklarasyon pou garde pou 5an.  E nou pa kapab rann sa dimoun son deklarasyon pou 3an oubyen 2an akoz i annan bann ka ki i annan dimoun ki pa vin deklare pandan sa lannen parey la nou 2017  nou pe al anmas deklarasyon pou 2016 e si sa dimoun 2016 ek 2015 i pa’n vini.  E i pa’n kapab vin ler i pou anmas sa deklarasyon i dir ler ou’n  met sa, sa in ganny 5an e sa lot li ki in mete pa ankor ganny 3an, i  pa ankor ganny son 5an, nou pa kapab rann li, akoz dan nou register nou’n mete kan ou ti vini.  Si ou vini wi  i bezwen gard avek nou 5an.  5an apre 5an la nou donnen, me si sa bann dimoun pa  vin serse,  Lalwa i provide en fason pou nou dekrir dan prezan enn de Bord members.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Onorab Churchill Gill.

Question arising?

HON CHURCHILL GILL

Yes.  Bonn apre midi CEO.  CEO ki arive ler en legzanp nou’n fini fer nou deklarasyon dan nou deklarasyon kekfwa nou ti annan anticipate fer serten biznes  zot mete sa ler nou fer nou deklarasyon apre  I al dan 2an,  nou antre dan sa biznes, eski sa letan eski nou bezwen konmsi anvoy en dokiman kot  pou fer ou konnen  ki azoute oubyen ki mannyer i pou marse – dan sa sans koumsa.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Yes CEO.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy.  Mersi Onorab.  Pou dimoun ki in acquire ki in annan en acquisition apre ki in fer son deklarasyon, i bezwen si i significant.  Si en pti keksoz me si ou annan en propriyete oubyen en gro biznes ou kapab vini  vin kot nou pou fer deklarasyon.  Pou fer deklarasyon e i further to sa.  I annan dimoun i espere  son next letan i vini son 1an i ariv sepa Oktob Novanm i konnen ki poudir dan Zanvye – Fevriye i fer son deklarasyon la i kapab enkli sa ladan.  Me solman   ou on the right track pou ou si oule fini kot nou, nou fer nou atas sa avek sa dokiman.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Onorab Aglae.

HON EGBERT AGLAE

Zis pou follow up en pti gin avek kestyon  Onorab Gill se pou piblik osi mon vini mon vin fer mon deklarasyon kot ou,  prezan ki metod prezan ki zot pe servi pou al verifye sa osi pou gete si sa ki mon pe dir i genuine si i vre. Akoz i deza annan en serten fason fer ki fer sa non?

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab. Yes CEO.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy.  Mersi Onorab.  I napa fason pou nou konnen  sa ki in vwar, akoz nou Lalwa problenm se ki Lalwa pa permet nou pou nou get anndan ler sa  paz – akoz i annan apepre 6 paz nou get zis  – ler ou vin deklare la nou gete  si  Mr Felix menm ki’n met son non devan, apre son saler i la devan apre nou pa gete si ou annan shares – si ou annan isi… nou ploye,  ou siny la deryer akoz i annan en bout ki ou,  ou sinyen akoz sa deklarasyon ou pa sinyen kot ou oubyen dan ou biro, ou vin siny devan nou, pou nou konnen poudir i annan dimoun ki’n sinyen.  Ler ou fini sinyen, aprezan  sa dimoun ki’n resevwar li osi i endorse – i sinyen kan lot, lot then nou pran nou met dan lanvlop  e la nou seal.   E avek sa nouvo  – sa lamannman Lalwa la aprezan napa problenm ek sa, akoz i pou piblik.  Me si zot santi  poudir i annan en rezon  pou fer li then zot kapab demann en amannman avek Lalwa, akoz mon konnen i annan en kantite landrwa – landrwa zot fer  ou menm ou pas ladan ou gete si sa bann dimoun in deklar byen son bann zafer.  Me solman Sesel i ptipti  kekfwa sanmenm sa.  Me solman la dek ki in komanse la in komans ouver, i annan louvertir pou sa bann Leaders, then sa bann osi I kapab osi zot kapab asir zot demande ki Lalwa  amande.  I pa en problenm me nou, nou bezwen operate anba Lalwa ki Lalwa I dir nou bezwen fer li.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Onorab Henrie.

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon annan zis 2 pti kestyon.  Depi ki sa Komisyon in kree an 2008 savedir i annan 8an la mon ti ava kontan demann avek madanm Crea konbyen  case dimoun in anmenn devan zot, ki konmsi i kapab zistifye ki poudir, wi i neseser ki nou envestir sa larzan dan sa Komisyon tou letan.  E apre mon anvi konnen zot Bord kantite fwa i zwenn  – how frequently zot zwenn?

        Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab. CEO.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Depite.  Mersi Onorab Henrie.  Depi sa Komisyon in kree,  mon pa kapab konnen konbyen case in annan selman  nou kapab re tyeke.  I bezwen  annan rikord.  Mwan akoz mon  mwan mon  zwenn la 3an edmi pase e ler mon’n vini,  nou pa’n gannyen case  – mon kapab dir case pou investigate as …koz akoz i annan case ki’n vini  – 1,2 me ler zot in vini, sa dimoun in fini kite dan sa travay. Akoz nou Lalwa i dir se ki ou bezwen raporte  si ou’n tande I annan en vol  ki’n pase oubyen en code of practice zot bezwen raporte – raport kot nou avan sa dimoun i kit travay.  Si sa dimoun li in tande zafer i sal, i resign oubyen i ganny terminate.  So si zot in raporte nou, nou pou kontinyen ek sa lanket.  Me si sa dimoun in fini kit travay apre  ki zot vin raport kot nou Lalwa I dir nou se ki nou bezwen pe fer investigation during the tenure of office. I koumsa.  E ou lot kestyon se ki Bord member how often ki zot meet – ki nou meet.  Bord members i meet once a month or at least once every 2 months.  Si i annan keksoz pou diskite nou fer li once a month e si napa keksoz ase prese, then i meet once every 2 months.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Mersi CEO.

Onorab Henrie.

HON GERVAIS HENRIE

Matters arising.  Konmsi pou mwan kler dan mon lespri akoz  madanm Crea  in dir mwan ou la depi sa dernyen 3an, so annou oubliy sa 2 dernyen lannen me zis 2016 par egzanp, ou annan sif konbyen case  zot in gannyen?  Mersi.

CEO MINA CREA

Mon pa’n ganny okenn konplent e parey nou Lalwa i dir nou kapab fer investigation – taler mon ti pe swiv letan  Anti-Corruption ti pe prezant son  ti nonmen poudir i annan Lalwa ki napa ledan.  Nou Lalwa i annan ledan me solman ok mon pou admet ki I napa ledan pou serten lakoz.  I dir tou dimoun ki ganny appointed anba Konstitisyon kot Konstitisyon i  fer en prosedir pou retir sa dimoun  nou, nou pa kapab investigate sa dimoun.    Me Anti-Corruption sa body will take care of that.  E pou lezot, dimoun – i kapab nenport dimoun  shop, factory workers oubyen up to even up to CEO, zot kapab raport li avek mwan.  Pour ou konnen si nou annan ledan, fodre ou donn nou lavyann pou  gete si nou kapab morde.  Me si zot pa anmennen ki mannyer morde pou konnen si I annan ledan?  Akoz si ou pran sa bann dimoun anba Konstitisyon kekfwa  konbyen  – kekfwa en 60 dimoun koumsa me what about sa bann lezot…for sa akoz… pe personn zot pa….

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Onorab Georges question arising.

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Mersi Mr Chair.  Zisteman madanm Crea, bonn apre midi.  Nou konpran ou Lalwa I annan ledan, eski in servi sa ledan – eski in deza servi oubyen in servi? Ou Lalwa in servi sa ledan oubyen i pa ankor servi?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes CEO?

 

CEO MINA CREA

Lalwa pe servi, akoz   nou operate anba sa Lalwa wi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes Onorab?

HON BERNARD GEORGES

Kekfwa ou pa’n konpran  mwan eski zot in deza mord en dimoun oubyen i pa ankor morde?

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

CEO. 

CEO MINA CREA

Onorab mon‘n nonmen se ki pou nou konnen si nou morde e  oubyen pou dimoun konnen si nou morde, fodre ou anmenn  – i kapab soft food pou pti baba, i kapab lavyann pou gete ki mannyer ledan i ete. Ok?  I pa ankor tro tar.         Swa ou kapab anmenn kot Anti-Corruption swa ou kapab anmenn kot nou.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mersi bokou Mr Chairman e bonn apre midi madanm Crea ek ou travayer fidel 4 in 1  – konmsi…Letan nou pe koz lo   premyerman declaration of assets ou dir apre 5an – apre 5an ki en dimoun i sinyen e ranpli ou sipoze rann li ou sipoze… mon trouv i drol mon pa ankor ganny rann sa ki pour mwan.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  CEO?

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy.  Mersi Onorab.  I annan 5an depi  ler ou’n deklare, ou pa ankor ganny rann pou ou? Be I posib.  I posib ki ou pa ankor ganny rann se ki kekfwa ou pa ankor pase pou met lot akoz  mon pou pran sa lenstans pou mwan dir   – mon pe dir declaration of assets i annan en de Manm Lasanble  – kantmenm I annan bann ki’n ale ki’n retournen, I annan en de Manm Lasanble ki pa’n – i annan ler mon tyek lo Chart i annan ki pa’n fer deklarasyon.

        Normalman nou pou donn ou ler sa dimoun i vini i fer deklarasyon dizon sa dimoun ki fer deklarasyon an 2016 e ler i vini nou pou donn li 5 days back i pou 2011.   Pou bann 2008, – 2008 in ganny rann, 2009 in ganny rann, 2010 ti fek pe ganny rann la e la sa lannen nou pran 2011.  So i pa en problenm ou kapab pas kot nou  ou ganny rann.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi CEO.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Zisteman rezon  parski mon ti dan Lasanble  letan ti pas sa Lalwa  mon konn li byen nou ti premye Lasanble ansanm ek Onorab De Commarmond – Onorab William nou ti  premye Lasanble  ki pou – Onorab Georges well i ti  bann premye pou ranpli.  Me solman apre sa mwan personnelman mon ti refiz-e – mon ti refiz-e ranpli sa declaration of assets akoz ti annan serten public officers ki ti refiz-e ranpli.  E set a sa moman ki mon ti dekouver ki zot napa ledan.  Menm si nou’n koz lo ledan avek lezo mon ti dekouver zot napa ledan akoz zot pa ti kapab fer  sa bann public officers ranpli zot bann assets e mon ti pe teste lo mon menm.  Mon pa ti al rod en bout lavyann pou met dan zot labous  – mon ti teste li lo mon menm.  Mon ti met mon lebra e mon ti dir avek CEO sa letan  sete madanm Lafortune  – mon ti dir avek li mon pa pou ranpli, pran aksyon ki neseser anba Lalwa e  ti napa okenn aksyon ki ti ganny pran.  Se sa ki mon pe dir ki  mon prop lebra ki  mon  ti met dan lagel lisyen. Pa sa lisyen ki ou annan anler kot ou sa –   sa ti pou mord mwan menm sa ;  ki finalman pa ti morde.  Sa i enn.

        Dezyenmman letan nou pe koz lo  – i osi zot responsabilite pou provide en Code of Ethics – Conduct and Ethics – enn bann keksoz ki mon ti ava kontan konnen parski enn bann problenm parmi bann public officers  – parski sa definisyon  public officers osi tou la nou’n re soz ki nou’n osi tou nou ti ganny deklare en public officer ki nou pa ti dakor avek sa definisyon parski nou’n plito vwar bann public officers se bann civil servants.  Dan civil service i toultan annan sa problenm politik e ankor enn fwa la mon pou demande lo nivo sa Code of Ethics e menm la mon’n kontinyelman vwar public servants ki pe al travay avek parasol politik – public servants ki al travay avek bann bolpenn politik  – bann keksoz ki lye direkteman avek politics e ki konmsi mon pe demande  zot Code of Conduct and Ethics whether sa bann keksoz zot in osi apard ranmas the declaration of assets zot in ranforsi sa Code of Ethics pou fer sir ki bann zofisye, i  lev standar. Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Yes CEO.

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy.  Mersi Onorab.

Declaration of assets aksyon demande ki aksyon  ki’n pran.  Ou dir ou seye anvoy lanmen dan sa lagel pou gete.  Declarations of assets letan tou le lannen – nou anvoy fer en lalis bann dimoun bann defaulter si nou kapab dir kot Attorney General.  Si parey pou  ou pe dir si ou pa’n deklare ansanm ek lezot – napa dimoun ki ganny   kite zot non i lo lalis.  Selman antretan i annan bann dimoun zot in vin deklare apre  ki nou ‘n bezwen al travay avek Attorney General pou tir zot non lo lalis.  Sa ki fer sa retarde, akoz letan  nou anvoy kot Attorney General, I annan  aksyon anba Lalwa ki dir i bezwen pran .  Me solman   ti annan en letan ki ti annan sa Lalwa Ethics Commission ti ganny revize akoz ti annan rezistans avek bann Bord members  ki private, zot ti refiz-e  zot.  E si mon krwar Gouvernman ti ale i pa ti pou ganny reprezantan prive lo bann Bord so bann Bord members ti dir akoz zot, zot pe fer zot deklarasyon  – zot pe fer registration  laba kot Government biznes zot pa vwar akoz ankor zot bezwen fer en deklarasyon si Gouvernman  i oule al get laba.  So Lalwa ti ganny amande pou bann Bord members ki pli vye pou  zot pa deklare me bann ki dan Gouvernman pou deklare  – kontinyen deklare, e lezot ki nou konn zot ki ganny defini koman en public officers – member of Assembly, President of whatever – whoever  ki ganny nonmen dan sa Lalwa zot devret deklare.  So kekfwa retar I avek sanmenm sa akoz letan pou tir sa bann dimoun ki in deza anvoy kot li akoz pa’n fini avek sa, lalis  i la.  So i riske ki la letan ki nou’n fini  met lalis annord, e la I annan sa bann nouvo lamannman osi ki annan  kekfwa AG  i a travay lo la pou gete how to deal avek sa bann dimoun.  E mwan mon rekomandasyon, pou bann dimoun ki piblik ki travay dan Gouvernman pa neseserman nou esper  pou anmenn Ankour, Gouvernman, akoz ou en  anplwayer Gouvernman i kapab bring sa bann dimoun to task.  Pran aksyon ek sa bann dimoun.  Bann dimoun I annan pli par i lo kontra.  Si   ou pey zot  gratwite  retenir zot gratwite oubyen pa renew zot contract.  So i pa neseserman i parey nou zanfan lakour ou konnen ki mannyer ou pou deal avek ou piti me bann ki deor laba, I annan lezot fason ki mannyer ou pou deal avek zot.

        So i annan en pti pe sa bann zafer  ki pe pase so  i annan dimoun ki‘n ganny letan mor tou  me bann dimoun ki ankor vivan, pa trakase I annan keksoz ki nou pa konnen ki mannyer nou pou tret sa avek sa nouvo mod deklarasyon ki  parey zot Manm Lasanble lo la.  So i annan ledan solman akoz nou,  pa dir nou napa manda – nou napa manda  pou deal ek en dimoun pou nou disiplin sa dimoun.

        E ou 2enm se Code of Conduct and Ethic ki mannyer nou pe promouvwar sa?  E specifically ou pe dir lo bann zafer political  – bann dimoun dan travay.  Training mon pe donn li  – mon pe met en gran lanfaz pou donn training.  Akoz avan bann training nou ti koz zis lo sa pti liv of Conduct and Ehics.  Mwan mon’n elarzi li pou mon training e mon training session ki mon donnen e la pli par di-tan mon lo field pe donn training.

        Training session  i last for I full day  for i pa ni 1erdtan i1 full day oubyen 2 half days e tou bann travayer, I ganny ekspoze avek bann Code of Conduct and Ethics ki include political neutrality.  Sa ki mon  fer sorti avek zot ou kapab siport tel parti politik sa i pa problenm personn me pa anmenn politik dan travay.  Dan travay pa koz politik dan travay.  Be loyal.  You have to be loyal to the Government.  Mwan mon‘n travay atraver letap  – konbyen 4 Gouvernman depi kolonyal.  Mon’n dakor pou reste mon‘n travay ek premye Gouvernman Mancham.   Mon’n dakor pou reste mon’n travay ek 2enm Gouvernman,  i Parti Inik. Mon’n dakor pou reste multiparty e  mon ankor la e byento mon pe ale.  Me solman si ou kontan pou travay pou sa Government of the day, ou bezwen be loyal to the Government of the day.  An deor ou travay sa en lot zafer  solman dan ou landrwa travay… So apard ki sa zafer political neutrality, mon tous lo bann laliny eksplik zot ki savedir Ehics ler nou dir Ethic nou pe dir lo nou dir  what is right   i  definir en Code ;’What is right. And what is wrong.  And you decide ou bezwen fer sa ki byen.   E leson  ki mon fer sorti ek zot, se ki, ‘’right is right even everybody else  is not doing it.’  And wrong is wrong even everybody else I doing it.’’ Sa mon Code e mon koz ek zot lo la.  Mon’n tann  ‘bullying’ lot zour dan Lasanble mon tann  ‘bullying’ .  Bullying I pa zis manrmay lekol ki bully.  Travayer  I ganny bully.   E sa nou koz avek zot antre zot i kapab Sef pe bully sa ki pli ba oubyen koleg travay.  Annandler ou vwar en dimoun pa vin travay ou rode  akoz  – kekfwa i pe ganny bully.  I sov travay parey manrmay lekol i konnen  i ganny bully i sov travay.. So mon tous bullying  – mon tous harassment – i sexual harassment  e tou kalite harassment ki i egziste.  I annan dimoun  i soufer an silans e nou dir zot poudir si ou annan problenm, ou konnen kot ou pou ale, mon nonm bann landrwa kot zot kapab ale. Apre nou tous lo absenteeism – fason koze ek dimoun – tousala i dan Code of Conduct and Ethic.  Public Sector Orders osi i annan.  So mon pran sa letan pour mwan nobou al lo teren  – mon pou donn ou en legzanp, kot Minister Lasante,

I annan bann pti video ki mon’n download menm mon a montre zot ki mannyer Lasanble zot behavemisbehave  tou dan Lasanble. Pa zis isi ki anywayethics e tou sa.  So kot Minister Lasante nou’n pran plis ki 3 semenn.  Nou‘n al toulezour akoz lasante I annan en kantite dimoun.  E mon kontan poudir ou  ganny sa sipor from above  – depi son Minis ti vini –  son bann CEOs – son bann PSs tousala ti vini .  Akoz ki arive, mon‘n devlop en lot nivo training.  Mon santi ki poudir en landrwa kot mon’n ale  letan  mon  donn training zot anvoy zis bann pti dimoun…. Prezan bann travayer i konplent.  Me Sef osi  I annan lentere pou vini.  Alor mwan mon‘n devlop en training ki  apel sa Ethical Leadership Training. So  ler mon fer Ethical Leadership  savedir sa group ki  ou’n fini avek apre mon pran Ethical Leadership ki  mon pe dir ou Lasante kot tou ti vini  e i ti ganny support.  So this is part of the training.  It is interesting.  Mon pare pou vini si zot dir mwan vin donn en  tel training Lasanble.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok, mersi CEO.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mr Chairman mon krwar ki madanm Crea in enpresyonn nou tou avek son prezantasyon e mon krwar nou kapab  pran en vot e donn li son Bidze e wish li the very best  dan son travay ki I fer.  E retourn nou lanvlop.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Yes mon annan en Manm ankor.  Onorab Mondon  pou…

HON TERENCE MONDON

Mr Chair mon  pe withdraw  mon kestyon.  Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok.  Petet zis mon ava demann CEO madanm Crea si zot print okenn zot bann Code of Ethics ki ganny print e i ganny anvoye dan bann Departman public service partou?  I ganny fer?  And how often I ganny fer pou par egzanp nouvo public officers ki antre?  Zis donn nou en pti pe detay.  Go ahead CEO.

 

CEO MINA CREA

Mersi Deputy Chair.  Code of Conduct and Ethics depi 2009 in sorti e in ganny distribye dan bann Lorganizasyon.   Ou vwar la i la e bann Lorganizasyon   mon pa konnen si i distribye ek zot bann dimoun me solman  I anvoye.  Mon konnen mon bann predecessors in toultan anvoye.  E mwan ler mon al training mon anmennen e  mon dir zot si zot  bezwen kopi zot napa, electronically nou kapab anvoy en kopi kot zot.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Ok. Good mersi CEO.  Bon lo sa not, nou’n ariv en pwen kot nou pou pran en vot lo Public Officers Ethics Commission lo on Bidze ki trouve lo paz 107 ziska 108 sonm R2.390milyon e mon  a demann tou Manm ki an faver pou lev lanmen?  Okenn Manm ki kont? Onorab Ferrari ou kont? Non?  Ok.

        Mrs Tania.

MRS TANIA ISSAC

Mersi Mr Chair.  Mon’n rikord 26  vot ‘Pour e personn pa’n vot kont.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi.  Bon savedir, Bidze pour lo Public Officers Ethics Commission sonm R2.390milyon in ganny aprouve par Lasanble Nasyonal.  Mon ti a kontan a sa moman remersi CEO madanm Mina Crea ek son  asistan madanm Beverly Carolla pou vin parmi nou apre midi pou  prezant Bidze son Commission e nou ti ava ekskiz zot  parmi nou.  Mersi.

CEO MINA CREA AND HER DELEGATION WAS EXCUSED FROM THE HOUSE

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon avan  nou recess mon ti a zis kontan ankor, remersi PS Payet – Mr Thesee – Ms Tamatave ki pandan tou sa letan in  avek nou  – la fidel avek nou .  Nou pou termin la   e mon ti a kontan  remersi PS Payet  avek son 2 zofisye fidel pou tou sa sipor ki in donn Lasanble  – ki in donn osi bann Heads – bann Minister e nou konnen  zot annan bokou travay e nou, nou pe pran en Recess.  Malgre nou recess nou osi tou nou annan bann Komite ki pou kontinyen meet pandan Recess.  I annan bann Komite sirtou ki fek zwenn  – convene ki bezwen fer bann travay pou etabli zot ToR tou zot zafer.  So PS Payet ek ou lekip nou swet ou ki ou a kontinyen sa bon travay e ou napa Break e nou a revwar ou straight apre State of the Nation Address pou nou kapab kontinyen sa bann deliberasyon – sa bann deba.  Mon pou donn ou laparol si oule dir en pti mon avan  ou ale. Mon krwar ou deserve sa.

PS PATRICK PAYET

Thank you Mr Chair.  Anyway in en plezir mon krwar depi Desanm pour mwan avek mon lekip.  Mon konnen in en travay tre entans me nou’n osi nou’n apresye, akoz mon konnen nou lo kote Minister Finans i pa zis nou ki anvi anmenn pei devan, i Lasanble Nasyonal osi.  So nou pare pou kontinyen travay ek Lasanble anmenn sa sipor e mon konnen konzwentman nou pou travay avek FPAC, me solman Bidze  pa ankor aprouve  – pa ankor fini, so letan nou a vini an Fevriye   nou a kontinyen sa travay avek Lasanble.  E mersi nou a swet zot en bon  Recess.  Mon konnen kekfwa i annan travay ankor pou kontinyen.  Mersi.

        (APPLAUSE)

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi PS.  Ok avek sa nou avan ekskiz ou avek ou  lekip parmi nou.

 

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Zis avan ki Mr Payet i ale avek son lekip, mon krwar ki I toutafe apropriye pour lo lapar lekip LDS dan Lasanble pou dir ki ziska prezan nou’n vreman enpresyonnen avek son profesyonnalizm – son klarite, e  dan en fason transparan, lafason ki in reponn  bann kestyon ki nou’n met devan – lafason ki in ed nou, pou nou trouv en pe bann mister parfwa ki i annan dan Bidze  alors mon krwar ki  lo lapar lekip LDS nou ti ava kontan remersye li e swet li bon kontinyasyon.

        Mersi bokou.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab De Commarmond.

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Yes de même Mr Chair mon krwar ki  Mr Deputy Speaker, mon krwar ki Minister Finans  – Mr Payet ek son lekip, in montre nou sa konpetans ki zot annan e dan sa fason travay mon krwar ki letan zot Bidze pou vin devan nou I pa pou  difisil  pou nou donn sa sipor pou nou aprouve toultan remersye osi sa lapros ki zot in annan avek nou Lasanble.  Lo kote Parti Lepep osi, nou welcome sa kalite korperasyon e nou demande ki nou kontinyen – nou’n komans en bon keksoz  nou kontinyen pou reponn a bezwen la Nasyon  – a bezwen nou pep e  osi pou reponn a lapel Prezidan Faure lo kestyon latransparans – lo kestyon accountability e tou.

        So  mon krwar ki dan sa fason travay nou pou avans nou Lasanble  – nou pou avans nou Nasyon pli devan.  Mon a dir li mersi e annou bless sa travay an ekip – sa travay ‘together ki nou pe fer e hope ki sa i al devan.

        Mersi.

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab De Commarmond.  Bon avek sa nou ava ekskiz PS Payet parmi nou avek son lekip.  Ankor mersi PS.

PS PATRICK PAYET AND HIS DELEGATION WAS EXCUSED FROM THE HOUSE

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

 I byen nou pe pran Recess lo sa not.  Bon zis mon oule partaz avek bann Manm Lasanble ozordi I annan enn nou Manm ki ganny lanniverser  sa se Onorab Ahmed Afif, so i byen ki  i ankor la parmi nou  kapab dir li bonn aniverser e all the best Onorab.

        (APPLAUSE)

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon, parey  nou ti anonse bomaten mon pa ti’n prevwar ler nou regard kantite travay par egzanp nou ti’n mete ozordi e kantite ki nou’n akonpli i fer ki menm mon regard travay semenn prosenn  nou ti pou al ankor petet 3 zour  4 zour akoz kantite sa bann Bodies ki nou’n pran ozordi i pa  vreman anliny avek sa ki PS Finans ti’n donn mwan.   So sa i demontre ankor kantite travay ki nou annan  pour nou fer.  Parfwa nou vwar en pti Lotorite i vin devan nou, nou panse ki nou kapab fini dan en demi erdtan – 1erdtan me petet i pran bokou plis letan, so en pti pe dan sa laliny osi tou ki mon’n pran sa desizyon e mon kontan ki PS Finans prezan zot tou zot dakor avek sa.

        Parey mon’n dir bomaten, Lasanble pou reconvene avek State of the Nation Address  Mardi le 14 Fevriye kot Prezidan pou vin adres nou Lasanble, me antretan nou annan bokou travay pou nou fer.  Nou konnen menm FPAC osi  tou i busy zot annan travay par egzanp avek Kont Oditer Zeneral pou zot scrutinize and so on ok?  Lo sa pwen avan nou bouz further mon ti a  zis demann Sergeant-at-Arms pou rekonstitye nou dan en Lasanble apre nou ava terminen. Ok?  Konmsi mon ti a kontan donn laparol le 2 Manm le 2 Leaders pou dir 2 pti parol apre nou ava pran Recess.  Ok?  Onorab De Commarmond?

HON CHARLES DE COMMARMOND

Mwan zis pou mwan remersye lafason  – lapros ki nou’n pran sa travay   – en travay enorm en travay fran.  Mon krwar petet  nou’n  – petet  dan listwar Sesel  la premyer fwa osi ki nou pran Bidze dan sa fason.  I annan pou nou improve lo sa ki nou pe fer pour nou fer li pli byen.  Petet nou lapros parey mon’n deza dir pou Bidze lannen prosenn nou a kapab prepar nou pli boner avek en budget process ki ava ed nou dan sa prosesis e an menm tan petet i bon nou profite pou remersye bann Minister – bann Departman ki’n pas devan nou so far pou zot franchise zot korperasyon osi akoz san zot franchise, transparans  e korperasyon I pa anmenn nou  dan sa letap kot nou’n arive.  E an zeneral  nou a remersi Gouvernman akoz sa travay ki nou pe fer i en travay ki  – parey mon’n dir taler ki pou ed lanasyon.  I pou en travay ki  pou fer en keksoz ki byen.  Sa mon krwar i dan lespri nou tou e mon krwar tou lede kote pour nou kapab anmenn sa latransparans devan.  Nou osi petet profite  pou remersye pep Seselwa pou zot pasyans akoz i pa’n en keksoz fasil  – si i pa fasil pou nou be pou zot ki pe ekoute laba deor osi, nou konnen progranm televizyon  – radyo tousala in ganny disturb to a certain extent.  Nou remersi zot pou zot pasyans pou konpran nou.  Me tou sa ki nou pe fer parey mon’n dir taler, I dan zot osi lentere.  Pou fini Mr Chair nou remersye ou, ou’n sey ou best avek Speaker,  pou sey ou best pou kapab koman dir sa  – konpran nou  pou sey tenir me osi nou swete ki letan nou retournen  nou’n an en pe pli grandi – en pe pli mature  – en pe pli konpran.  Nou a  ganny letan reflesir, e nou a kapab fer en travay pli byen osi lo kestyon lorganizasyon ensidswit e nou lekter deor nou bann dimoun ki pe ekout nou – nou bann ekoute deor zot osi zot an konpran en pe pli byen  – nou kapab alor fini sa prosesis ki nou’n komanse dan en lot pli bon. Mon remersi osi Lopozisyon pou sa travay kolektiv ki nou’n fer dan plizyer lenstans nou’n diskit ansanm nou’n koze – nou’n riye tou byensir  – tousala me se dan bon lespri ki nou’n fer tou sa ki nou’n fer e avek sa bon not mon swete ki tou dimoun i al dan en bon recess e ki nou kontinyen konnekte ek nou dimoun – nou kontinyen reste konnekte ek bann lenstitisyon – nou kontinyen priy Bondye pou gid nou pou fer sa travay konplet ki li i fer.  Vwala avek sa mon a remersye tou dimoun.  Se lo en bon not ki koumsa ki mon ti a kontan    dan Lasanble I fini e annou kit sa good note – sa good spirit ki nou Lasanble pe fonksyonnen. Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Onorab Ramkalawan.

HON WAVEL RAMKALAWAN

Mersi bokou Mr Deputy Speaker.  Mr Deputy Speaker, mwan mon anvi premyerman eksprim remersiman pou lafason ki Lasanble in travay.  Mon krwar ki spesyalman depi ki nou’n komans lo Bidze, nou’n kapab malgre bann fristrasyon  – malgre bann diferan sityasyon,  ki’n kapab arive, mon krwar ki nou’n aprann bokou keksoz e lafason ki nou’n atak Bidze definitivman i premyer fwa ki sa i arive dan nou listwar pou  nou al an detay parey nou’n ale, e mon anvi dir ki sa i en bon leksperyans pou lepep Seselwa.  E mwan se sa ki mon vwar vreman enportan.   Ki lepep Seselwa pou premye fwa zot in nobou swiv deliberasyon lo en Bidze, zot in kapab konn bann  dimoun dan bann diferan Minister konn zot koze regard nou letan  nou pe depouy bann sif – letan nou pe kestyonn bann lobzektif e sa in petet enn bann pli gran moman edikasyonnel pou nou pep.  Ozordi nou pep i konn bokou pli byen ki mannyer en Gouvernman i deroule  – ki mannyer en Bidze i deroule e dan milye sa leksperyans mon krwar ki en pa enportan ki nou’n fer, se pou ki a lavenir letan i annan en eleksyon ki pe vini, nou pa pou servi Bidze koman en zouti politik pou en eleksyon Lasanble Nasyonal.  Me kot dimoun  i konnen ki nenport ki sennla ki form en mazorite dan Lasanble, i pa la son rol pou li blok en Bidze me pour li regarde fouye kot fodre koupe i koupe – kot fodre ankouraze I ankouraze me ki se byennet sa pep ki vin en pwen pli enportan.  Alor pou mwan sa in vreman enportan en kantite.  E mon ti a kontan remersye Staff Lasanble parski Staff Lasanble  zot in bezwen bokou sipor avek zot fanmir – bann long erdtan ki zot in travay – Staff SBC tou bann dimoun ki involve avek nou Lasanble parski nou’n vreman fer zot travay en kantite.  E la konmsi mon krwar ki Gouvernman sa lannen I pou bezwen prepar li pli byen e ki letan nou’n ariv Novanm, boner Novanm oubyen sometimes dan milye Novanm ki Bidze I ganny prezante e nou ganny nou en mwan omwen pou nou kapab depouy sa Bidze.  Enn bann keksoz ki nou espere se ki bann Minister zot ava’n koriz bann keksoz ki nou’n pas lo la sa fwa si e nou pa ava ganny sa bann menm problem  ki nou’n gannyen avek zot, pou nou  demann zot kestyon ensidswit me ki I ava annan en nouvo lapros altogether.  Mon ti ava kontan osi definitivman remersye Sekretarya petet letan nou pe pran en Recess sa premye Sesyon ki nou’n fer pou remersye pasyans ki Sekretarya avek nou  in bezwen annan e pou dir ki si in annan bann malentendus ensidswit ki nou pran sa as part of the learning curve e ki term prosen ki byento i komanse letan nou vini nou vin avek en nouvo lespri.  Nou ava’n aprann nouvo leson  tou bann manm e nou ava kapab bouz devan.  Definitivman I pa ti lentansyon personn  ki sa bann malentendus i arive me ki zot arive – nenport landrwa zot arive e sa ki sa i ava permet nou  bouz devan.  Avek sa Mr  Deputy Speaker mon osi tou mon dir tou dimoun pas en bon Recess e solman pa ti a mal si ti konmsi Lasanble ti’n organiz en pti cocktail  me anyway mon osi tou mon zwenn pou wish mon koleg ki asiz o-bor mwan Onorab Afif en bon lanniverser e  mon swet li bokou plis lasazes pou li depouy sa bann Bidze e mon konnen ki in fer en gran travay dan sa Lasanble.  Alors Mr Deputy Speaker, mersi bokou tou dimoun e lepep Seselwa mersi bokou.

(APPLAUSE)

 

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mersi Onorab.  Bon mon annan en dernyen remersiman.  Tou bann Manm  I pa’n fasil anler lo sa sez me no matter what mon krwar ki nou en Lasanble ki vreman vibran parey mon’n tann serten Manm  parler i dir.  Petet deor, i annan sa persepsyon deor ki ler  nou fini en sesyon i annan lager and all that, non.  Sa deba  – sa bann dezagreman i  fer la anndan deor nou tou Manm nou byen nou parey frer k ser avek kanmarad ok ek  mon a remersye zot pou zot pasyans – osito pou aksepte bann desizyon osi ki Chair I pran ki mon konnen parler I pa dan zot faver.  Mon remersye zot pou sa. Mon ti a kontan remersye spesyalman osi tou mon bann Staff e Speaker osi ki yer mon’n an kontak ek li.  Speaker koman I rantre  I fer mon krwar 2 zour  pe al Speakers Conference Londres Westsminster e nou Clerk  – Madanm Clerk mon krwar sa wikenn la  I pe bezwen deplase ok I pa al akonpanny Speaker e I pe bezwen deplas avan.  Mon ti a kontan remersye spesyalman      Madanm Clerk  ou Lofis e menm Deputy Clerk e  2 zour osi Mrs Tania Isaac ki vin  asiste nou.  En remersiman spesyal pou bann Staff SBC zot ki la i annan en lot group ki deryer dan technical room e nou konnen osi ki annan en lot group Hermitage ki ede  ki sa bann deliberasyon   pe ganny difize ki al swa lo radyo  swa lo televizyon nou bann telespektater. Mon ti a kontan osi avan mon fini remersi lepep Seselwa tou bann dimoun ki pe swiv deliberasyon dan Lasanble, tou bann dimoun ki petet napa gran lentere me ki’n kapab pasyante avek nou, anvi ki nou pe pas sa bann deba live lo  televizyon mon dir zot mersi pour zot pasyans e nou donn zot en Break pou en pti pe plis ki 1 mwan apre  pou nou repran.  So Madanm Clerk I anvi dir 2 pti mo.

MADAM CLERK

Mersi Mr Deputy.  Anfet mon ti pe al swet Onorab Afif de lapar bann Staff Sekretarya mon lofis e  de lapar tou bann Manm isi dan Lasanble en zwaye laniverser  e nou swet ou le meyer ve sorti kot tou bann Manm e osi Staff Sekretarya. So mon remersye zot ankor  it’s has not been easy it’s been a rocking journey solman ansanm  mon mazinen nou pou fer en  louvraz fantastik sa lannen e koman en Madanm dan pozisyon koman Clerk mon santi mwan ekstrememan privilezye pou temwanny bann desizyon kle ki ganny pran isi dan sa Lasanble ki enn ki istorik pou Sesel e mon swet tou bann Manm en bon repo e nou ava vwar an Fevriye.

        Mersi.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

Bon lo sa note nou ava adjourn e nou ava rezwenn le 14 Fevriye pou Leta Lanasyon.

 

 

(ADJOURNMENT)